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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:45 am 
Newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 8
Morning All :)

As some of you may have seen I've recently bought myself an 80s Falcon racer to sympathetically restore, I deliberately chose that bike as it is clearly nothing special and perhaps not worth of spending a great deal of money on searching for high end components etc.

Which leads me on to my question - just how do you tell if an older frame was high end? My knowledge of todays bikes is very high and I could easily spot the difference between a Planet X and Cervelo for example, going back to the 70s/80s to me it is not quite as clear cut, Dura-Ace and Record as always will be a good indicator but are there other tricks apart from that?

Ideally I want to find a bike worthy of a proper restoration but TBH I don't really have a baseline of where to start.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:50 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:13 pm
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Location: The Cock Inn, Tillett, Herts
http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds ... uality.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:35 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 8
Thanks for the link - interesting reading.

I'm I right in thinking that the quality of a steel frame is down to the small details rather than with modern frames where it is very much technology led?

What would be a good example of a high end advanced steel frame?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:18 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
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Location: Cumbria
High end steel frame what which era ? .........Modern like a "Feather" or a "Woodrup" by Kevin Sayles......or overly ornate like a hetchins............or an Aende with lots of bits chopped away.............the list is endless really. Have a wander around ClassicLightweights framebuilders section :D

Shaun


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:50 pm
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Midlife wrote:
High end steel frame what which era ? .........Modern like a "Feather" or a "Woodrup" by Kevin Sayles......or overly ornate like a hetchins............or an Aende with lots of bits chopped away.............the list is endless really. Have a wander around ClassicLightweights framebuilders section :D

Shaun


Ah sorry I meant at the end of the steel era so that would be mid 80s onwards, I'm really enjoying learning about the older bikes but I must confess to feeling a bit lost!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:21 pm 
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:18 pm
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Location: California
thebungle wrote:
I'm really enjoying learning about the older bikes but I must confess to feeling a bit lost!



"Its all in the lugs" Lets say you are looking at a naked frame with out paint or parts. Examine the head and seat lugs. A quality frame will have noticeably thinner mere elegantly formed lug work. Also the brazing will be neatly performed with little slop. Finally the lug and surrounding tube will be neatly filed so that he whole joint is a smooth elegant transition.

Now look at the bottom bracket shell, on a cheap bike the tubes will join to the shell in a blunt no frills joint, but on a quality frame the BB will be treated with the same artistry as the head and seat lug.

There are other details like special cut outs but that is another chapter

The next installment: filet brazing
Steven


Attachments:
1970 Rene Herse 4.jpg
1970 Rene Herse 4.jpg [ 66.45 KiB | Viewed 298 times ]
Confente Bb Shell.jpg
Confente Bb Shell.jpg [ 108.19 KiB | Viewed 298 times ]
1970 Rene Herse 1.jpg
1970 Rene Herse 1.jpg [ 67.21 KiB | Viewed 298 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:56 pm 
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:01 pm
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Location: Nottingham
The other, much more basic measure is to look at the dropouts. The really cheap, mass produced frames have pressed steel items i.e. cut or pressed out of a sheet of steel, whereas the more expensive frames have forged drop outs I.e. cast items, usually with the makers name engraved on them.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:08 pm
Posts: 2185
Location: Shrewsbury
Theoldfm wrote:
The other, much more basic measure is to look at the dropouts. The really cheap, mass produced frames have pressed steel items i.e. cut or pressed out of a sheet of steel, whereas the more expensive frames have forged drop outs I.e. cast items, usually with the makers name engraved on them.


+1 campagnolo drop outs is usually a good sign.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:49 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 8
Robbied196 wrote:
Theoldfm wrote:
The other, much more basic measure is to look at the dropouts. The really cheap, mass produced frames have pressed steel items i.e. cut or pressed out of a sheet of steel, whereas the more expensive frames have forged drop outs I.e. cast items, usually with the makers name engraved on them.


+1 campagnolo drop outs is usually a good sign.


Guys

Thanks - I'm certainly learning the subtleties and the fact that there is perhaps a certain element of 'attraction' to the bike, one which isn't present in many of todays bikes.

ps Robbie love the bikes on your Flickr


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