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 Post subject: track lugs?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:32 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:19 am
Posts: 344
Hi all,

I have been lurking this very forum for some time checking out the readers rides section until 3am :roll:

I have however came with a few questions.

I'm in the process of having a track frame made. The frame builder has given me a very, very good price as I had an existing track frame which was 531, I wanted the new one to be 853 in the exact same measurements.

My current track frames runs some very tight angles, which I'd like to keep on my new frame, but I'm really struggling to find some lugs which are tight enough? I've tried contacting Nova in the USA (had no reply) and framebuilding.com which where real helpful but I didn't quite get the answer I needed.


Anyone help? :lol:


Thanks,

R.T


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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:09 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5131
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
Framebuilding.com/Ceeway are the best bet in the UK but if they can't help then you could be struggling. What angles do you want? BITD, builders used to 'pull' the lugs to get steeper angles. In fact, I don't think anyone actually made lugs steeper than 73/74 degrees. I had a 75 parallel TT frame and you could see that the lug/tube angle was slightly out, especially on the top tube at each end.


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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:42 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
We used to reckon cast lugs could be pulled 1 degree, and pressed lugs a bit more. Some pressed lugs were slotted and rewelded at considerably different angles, as done in one of the most collectible rubbish frames of all time.
I have no experience of investment castings.
Keith


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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:05 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8230
Location: Cumbria
Can 853 be fillet brazed to avoid lugs?

Shaun

PS Keith, Just trying to think of a collectible rubbish frame ?


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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:04 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
Shaun, I had particular experience of Les Cassell and his dream product the thanet Silverlight. In 1958 I took on the remains of it, a shop in a backstreet with piles of empty boxes to look like stock, and 2 extremely expensive jigs.
Because of the crazy frame design the lugs were refabricated. Also a lot of pressed letter "T" were added everywhere.
I had previously spent several years laughing at these heaps of junk, which can now fetch perhaps £1500 for a frame.
Keith.


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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:27 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8230
Location: Cumbria
Hi Keith

Apologies to the OP for posting on his thread but looked at pics of the Thanet as I had never seen one before. Aerospace design he says LOL. Thought the Flying gate was a bit odd but at least they were very nicely made :D

Learn something new every day :D

Shaun


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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:35 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:04 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Completely in the dark, thanks to me good mate Terry....
Midlife wrote:
Can 853 be fillet brazed to avoid lugs?

Shaun

PS Keith, Just trying to think of a collectible rubbish frame ?


I'm fairly sure Dave Yates has offered fillet-brazed 853 road frames before now.

David


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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:27 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5131
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
My introduction to the Thanet was via my copy of 'The Complete Cyclist' where there was a drawing of various 'Unconventional Frames'. I suppose this may be where my propensity for being attracted to the weird and wonderful (?!) in bike design came from.


Attachments:
Odd Frames.jpg
Odd Frames.jpg [ 123.57 KiB | Viewed 242 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:41 am 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:04 pm
Posts: 1800
Location: A wretched hive of scum and villainy...
Those Thanets are indeed both weird and wonderful...I've mended two over the years.
They'd both cracked through the seattube where the seatstays cross.
There was no reinforcement of the joint and a just tiny 8mm (5/16") tube pierced through both stays and the seattubes as a brace.
Beautifully light and pretty stiff to ride, considering the spindly tubes involved.

Any interest in a neo-retro version, or is the design still controlled like the Bates, Hetchins, Flying Gates and Paris frames?

All the best,


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 Post subject: Re: track lugs?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:46 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8230
Location: Cumbria
Any patents will have long expired so you will be able to copy away :D You will not be able to pass them off as original though, that would be naughty LOL

Shaun


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