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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:43 am 
retrobike rider
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Location: Super Sussex by the Sea
keithglos wrote:
My experience is somewhat older, but we always used 2 spanners and tightened one against the other. The tabbed or flatted washer does help.


+2

Silly question but are you tightening these two nuts together or separately, after you've tightened the bearings up?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:55 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 10:41 am
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Had this recently on my road bike even when tightening with two spanners, didn't happen straight away but after about 50 miles would start to loosen off. Gave up in the end and used a bit of thread lock on the top nut. Hasn't come loose since.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:32 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:31 pm
Posts: 233
I had a similar problem with a Vitus 979 - it made using the front brake an interesting experience!

I had the headset replaced to no avail, and eventually sold the frame on.

However, I have since bought another Vitus, and have found out that the problem with my previous one was that the fork threads had been worn away.

I'm not sure if the same problem will affect your Dyna Tech (I assume your fork has a steel steerer rather than the soft alloy of the Vitus), but it might be worth looking at the threads?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Location: Bangor - NI
rosstheboss wrote:
Silly question but are you tightening these two nuts together or separately, after you've tightened the bearings up?


Separately. I tightened the lower 1st, then the upper onto the lower to (attempt to) hold in place.

All very good suggestions in this thread - I will investigate this evening.

N


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:55 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Location: Cumbria
Is the washer between them sitting in the flat / groove corectly in the steerer?

Or has someone swapped the washer for a circular one?

Shaun


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:15 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
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nathanm26 wrote:
rosstheboss wrote:
Silly question but are you tightening these two nuts together or separately, after you've tightened the bearings up?


Separately. I tightened the lower 1st, then the upper onto the lower to (attempt to) hold in place.

All very good suggestions in this thread - I will investigate this evening.

N
"Proper" technique for a locknut pair is to use two spanners, one to hold the nut against the bearing still, and tighten the locknut down with the other, pretty sure it's why cone spanners used to come in pairs (or threes in some cases, ancient shimano stuff springs to mind, not sure why)
I have a vague recollection that my first headset spanner came as one of a pair. One end of each was sized for a headset, the other ends were respectively a peg spanner and a lock ring spanner for the adjustable end of bottom brackets. (think the headset end of the spanner was used for the right hand cup, but it was 25 years ago, so not sure :oops: )


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
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Location: Sheffield, top city
keithglos wrote:
The tabbed or flatted washer does help.

this assumes either a flatted edge on the column or a groove. I've had many a custom frame with a perfect circle fork column often meaning I've had to file the tab off the inside of the washer


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:17 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 667
...Tackling the problem from the other end, I once sawed/filed a groove in a steerer thread without one, to be able to use a tabbed washer, in an attempt to correct just such a problem as OPs- It didn't work- the headset still worked loose... although admittedly the 'tab' on the washer was not very good. That was an alloy headset- what was left of the threads, on the locknut especially, wasn't exactly communicating the message; "tighten me to f-ck!" The bottom cup was a bit looser fit in the headtube than what I was familiar with, too. In the end I replaced the headset with a cheap steel one and it's been trouble-free (so far) ever since.

mattr- my avatar may jog your memory! Headset is 32mm, fixed cup is 36mm. You must have had three spanners?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:18 am
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Location: Bangor - NI
OK,

Well took a wee look see at the headset:

Cage bearings are in good condition
Image

Cone does bear some pitting:
Image

Threads on steerer do have a little damage:
Image

Lower nut or cup or whatever it's called in good condition:
Image

Building headset up again (without greasing just for photos sake):
Image

So the lower nut does have a spacer that slots into it as you can see. It's not notched however, but the steerer is. Should it be?

And on the spanner issue I have one large adjustable spanner that can fit either nut. Maybe I should invest in this old school 2 spanner method some of you speak of. It is a retro bike after all.

N


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:03 pm 
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 302
Location: West Dorset
I had the same problem on my Dynatech with a Campagnolo C Record headset. I bought a set of these and now am able to properly apply some torque to the locknut which wasn't possible with just one 32mm spanner. You get a pair of spanners which are high quality so you won't damage the spanner or the headset.

http://www.defietsenmaker.nl/index.php? ... 52&lang=EN

Martin


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