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 Post subject: Explain headsets please
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:26 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:16 pm
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Location: NOTTINGHAM
Just sat in the corner with my dunces hat on...

Am currently stripping a 70's frame (some variant of 531 tubing) and am on the look-out for a new headset as the one on the frame is the ugliest thing i've seen and is black - I need shiny silver. It's YST and should be English in terms of thread as it's from a UK frame builder?

However, I don't understand all the variants? The top of rubber headset housing :facepalm: says Ø 22.2. What part of the headset does this refer to?

The inner Ø of the headtube is 30mm. The outer Ø of the bearings i've removed is 37mm though I assume this is relative to the cup size?

So I need from you guys pointers as to what I need to buy - (really want it to be Campag Strada / Record / Super from the late 70's). Does the above information mean I can get what I want or does the existing headset spec mean I need to be looking at other headsets?

Hope this makes sense :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:35 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:56 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Flipping between Wigan and Lincoln
the 22.2mm I believe refers to the quill diameter.

What you have there is a standard 1" steerer from what I can tell (did you measure the steerer OD? - should be 25.4mm)


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:57 am 
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Elysarian wrote:
the 22.2mm I believe refers to the quill diameter.

What you have there is a standard 1" steerer from what I can tell (did you measure the steerer OD? - should be 25.4mm)


22.2 for the quill - of course!! told you I had my dunces hat on.

indeed - 25.4 for the steerer.

So as long as it says English thread, I can purchase any 1" Campag headset?


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:02 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
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Location: Cumbria
70's 531 Pukka UK frame then all you need is a 1" :)

It's the stack height that's important, some makers cut the fork steerer tube so short that you need a "thin" headset (short stack height) to fit. Back in the 70's that was unusual unless it was a track frame.

Indeed most 70's makers made room for the fashionable EDCO Competition headset which was really quite bulky (came in silver, black and gold and go for a shed load on e-bay) so you might need an extra spacer if going for a Campag one.

Be prepared to dig deep for something NOS though :(

What have you got at the moment?

Shaun

PS you can use an italian headset as the threads are virtually the same

PPS We used a lot of Tange headsets BITD, Tange Falcon was popular and still made today IIRC


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:28 am 
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Stack height - I've heard this mentioned many times and not really understood it's meaning - it's simply the total height of all the various bits that make up the top part of a headset?

I've just put the forks back in and measured the length of the steerer that is showing out of the top of the headtube - 27mm. This is with the bottom cup in place as the bugger is well and truly stuck! That bit might have to stay and i'll remove the black paint and try and make it look the part.

Pockets are a bit empty until next weekend but I don't mind paying if it's in good condition - NOS is unlikely as everything else will be used although nicely polished.

Hoping to do all parts with period Campag, issue is finding a 70's one that is in decent condition. The fall-back will be Tange perhaps if that was a commonly used part. I don't think this frame could warrant an EDCO - I'm already at £370 and I reckon there's another £250 to go to get it as I have it in my minds eye (famous last words)

Current headset is YST which looks like it's off a BMX and comes with a not-so complimentary rubber hood - it's bloody horrendous!

Didn't realise Italian was so similar - does that apply to BB's as wll then?

Cheers, brilliant advice & information as usual :D


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:56 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Location: Cumbria
Italian bottom brackets are completely different and are not interchangable. Italian headsets have slightly different cut to the threads but will fit OK as long as the threads are good. (someone will have a technical explanation).

Campag Pista headsets are very plain have no visible Logo on them apart from the top locknut if I remember (will check on velobase in a minute). Might be able to cheat (as we did) and use a plain modern headset with a campag locknut when the Campag races "Brinelled" :)

Campag pista here found on velobase.........looks plain to me.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... &AbsPos=25

I wonder what's on e-bay at the moment. Pissing down with rain here at the moment and the kids are baking in the kitchen so I have time for an e-bay search.

Shaun


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Got a Record Pista on the Rick Powell - it's a dream, silky smooth :) could swap it over but I use that bike every day so would spoil it if I was to change it.

Go on then - "brinelled" ??? what does that refer to?

Not great here either although no rain as yet.

Seen a few bits on the bay but most of it is 80's onwards or silly NOS money.


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:18 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Location: Cumbria
Just had a search on E-bay.............blimey, not cheap. I have put a watch on an alloy EDCO but that's in the States, twelve quid at the moment but not for much longer I guess.

Found a top locknut for 30 quid :(

You might have to buy a cheap copy for now.

Looked at a modern Tange Falcon and they now have "Falcon" on them. Levin or Passage might be better?

Shaun


PS Brinelling is the production of dimples / corrosion on the surfaces of the races which eventually cause the balls to stay in one place and "lock" the forks in the straight ahead position (the most common fork position). Caused by microwelds and stress corrosion.


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:37 pm 
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The best i've found (money wise) is Gran Sport at 40 but a) wrong decade & b) it's quite marked and i'd regret buying it.

Plus i'm some time away from being finished - still stripping the frame, but am accumulating bit's as I go along so it's not one huge outlay in one payday.

Never bought from outside the EU as always wary of import tax which could mean it's more expensive than buying from the EU???

Am sure one will pop up at some point, certainly not into paying 30 for a bloody locknut!!

May just try in the wanted section on here - you never know!

Good explanation on brinelling - so that's why the bars 'gently pop' into the straight ahead position?


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:05 pm 
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This is a handy threads cribsheet.

Like Shaun says, British/ISO, Italian and JIS headsets are interchangeable, but the internal diameter of the crown races varies slightly, so some fettling might be required, depending on the mix.

British and Italian BB can't be swapped as the width of the shells is different (68mm vs 70mm) and the fixed cups on the drive side are threaded in different directions.


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