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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:54 am 
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By the way Mercian are English, Mercier are French. Don't make the mistake of paying a Mercian price for a Mercier, it has been known! Not that there's anything wrong with Mercier.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:29 am 
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Was double post


Last edited by ibbz on Tue May 14, 2013 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:34 am 
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Robbied196 wrote:
By the way Mercian are English, Mercier are French. Don't make the mistake of paying a Mercian price for a Mercier, it has been known! Not that there's anything wrong with Mercier.



Thanks for the advice!
I searched a bit and cane across the following;
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... aters.html

Given me a good idea combined with what I have learned here.

I will expand my wants, I've been looking at a raleigh international, so something like that may compliment my Raleigh collection too.

My first proper bike was a Raleigh Europa with 531, and that was when I was about 12, I remember my dad picked it up from a boot sale, but u never appreciated it. It's long gone .

Since then I've been all about MTB's but I'm beginning to really appreciate the art and design and craft going into classic racer


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:00 am 
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And could you perhaps link some photographs of what sort of details to look for?


A good start is to look for Campag. ends... or failing that, some other similar forged(?) ends with the name of a component manufacturer on them- Simplex, Zeus, Shimano, Suntour, Gipiemme.. but usually Campag. Just about any european lightweight steel road bike with any pretensions to 'quality' built between the mid 60s and the mid 80s will have 'em.

Also, apart from the lugless, or really fancy lugged frames which may be beyond your budget unless you get lucky, amost any good lightweight steel bike in that time period will have Prugnat pointed lugs, or something very similar. The lugs on the BSA you linked to are stylistically similar, but much clumsier. Just before Prugnat, and somewhat overlapping timewise, the quality lug of choice was Nervex, as mentioned. A more ornate lug than the Prugnat. If the lugs have been worked on- thinned down, etc., then that means that somebody spent a lot of time on the frame beyond the bare minimum. Somebody cared, and care usually means quality. If you can recognise Campag. ends, and Nervex or Prugnat lugs, then that will be a quality frame built with good tubing.

Of course there are exceptions to these 'rules', great frames have been built with none of these features. Conversely, it is even possible that somebody built piss-poor gaspipe frames with Campag. ends and Nervex lugs, but I doubt it..


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:47 am 
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As Robbied196 said it's better if you increase a bit the budget.

Also before you commit yourself to buy a bike, it is better if you post the info here, a lot of people on this forum will help you out for sure as they know what they are talking about from their experiences.

Keep us updated :)


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:49 am 
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torqueless wrote:
Quote:
And could you perhaps link some photographs of what sort of details to look for?


A good start is to look for Campag. ends... or failing that, some other similar forged(?) ends with the name of a component manufacturer on them- Simplex, Zeus, Shimano, Suntour, Gipiemme.. but usually Campag. Just about any european lightweight steel road bike with any pretensions to 'quality' built between the mid 60s and the mid 80s will have 'em.

Also, apart from the lugless, or really fancy lugged frames which may be beyond your budget unless you get lucky, amost any good lightweight steel bike in that time period will have Prugnat pointed lugs, or something very similar. The lugs on the BSA you linked to are stylistically similar, but much clumsier. Just before Prugnat, and somewhat overlapping timewise, the quality lug of choice was Nervex, as mentioned. A more ornate lug than the Prugnat. If the lugs have been worked on- thinned down, etc., then that means that somebody spent a lot of time on the frame beyond the bare minimum. Somebody cared, and care usually means quality. If you can recognise Campag. ends, and Nervex or Prugnat lugs, then that will be a quality frame built with good tubing.

Of course there are exceptions to these 'rules', great frames have been built with none of these features. Conversely, it is even possible that somebody built piss-poor gaspipe frames with Campag. ends and Nervex lugs, but I doubt it..


Very enlightening, thanks!
This may require viewing for a greater appreciation - or of course some close clear photographs - and then some enquiries here.
It's all becoming more clear and transparent.
I could and probably would considerably up my budget - I just wanted to keep it down if it were Frame Only - as parts end up costing way beyond the price of a complete bicycle.
To be honest, 4 or 5 hundred quid depending would be within budget for a complete bike.

I've realised Racers are a different breed entirely than the MTB's I'm used to, and much more beautiful (classic bikes or classic traditional styled rather than ugly new eye sores with MTB type top tubes, over sized alloy and graphite tubing - sure they're light and fast but fugly)


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Dawes?

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=253428&start=0

Quite unique in the fact that its NOS


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Robbied196 wrote:
Dawes?

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=253428&start=0

Quite unique in the fact that its NOS


I saw that yesterday and it'd be something is be interested in but it's too large
I'm short only 5'7" with a 29" inside leg


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Saw this;

http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/details/raleigh.htm

Raleigh International or Professional look very appealing


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:25 am 
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I saw these on eBay, any advice? thoughs?
Carlton frame;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121109417828? ... 1423.l2649

Raleigh;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221227234700? ... 1423.l2649

Hetchins Frame;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230980123723? ... 1423.l2649

Mercian bike:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111072146298? ... 1423.l2649


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