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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:40 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:38 am
Posts: 19
Hi All,

I wonder if I could ask some advice?

I am just in the middle of paying for the Colnago below from Italy.

I've been after a Saroni Red Master for a long while at the right price and this at €700 seems a fair price.

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Can anyone advise of the age of this model, I believe it might be early 90's but the seller seems to think it is more than 30 years old, although it has been re-sprayed, I'm not sure if the forks are original, it looks like a threaded C-Record Headset but with a converter. I didn't think the Gilco tubing went back more than the 90's

I can't find out much about the Master Piu, how do they differ from the Master X-Lite, are they a little heavier, different tubing?

There is no sticker for the tubing type, so I wondered what type it would be, will the seatpost be 27.2?

Any advice or information on the frame would be most welcome.

Many Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:41 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:59 pm
Posts: 1117
Location: Isle of Wight
Hi this is my Colnago Master Piu,
viewtopic.php?t=203531&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
The early ones had curved front forks. Not straight one which I think were introduced in about 1988/9. Also the master had external rear brake cables but the Piu had internal rear brake cable.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:38 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:38 am
Posts: 19
Many Thanks stringfellow1946 appreciate your help.

I'm feeling quite happy about this Saroni and will probably commit the absolute sin and give it a modern twist and fit Athena 11s, I will fit the Neutron Ultras as well as this is a bike that will get ridden, probably a couple of thousand miles a year, so there's no point trying to pretend that I can still run a double with a 53/21.

I own a couple of C59's which are truly outstanding to ride, but something like this will be used on Audax's and easy going club rides where you are not breathing out of your backside all the time.

Thanks once again for the advice.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:07 am 
Devout Dirtbag
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 100
Location: Sydney
The internal cable routing through the top tube was not done on any Colnago models before 1987. The 3-pointed lugs on the bike you want to buy were first introduced in 1988 on the Masterpui, so we know it's no earlier than that. However, the seatstay caps on the frame indicate that it is a 90s model. Notice that they are different to the 1988 seatstay caps in Stringfellow's post. You can also get more information by looking at the underside of the bottom bracket too. Early models of the Master had a trefoil cutout in the bottom bracket. After the introduction of cartridge bottom brackets in in the early 90s (1992 for Campag) there was no need for a big cutout in the bottom bracket, and Colnago replaced the trefoil cutout with the word "COLNAGO" written in raised print under the bottom bracket. If this frame has the trefoil cutout, then it's from the period 1989-1992. If it has the raised COLNAGO lettering, then it's 1993 or later.

If it uses a 27.0 mm seatpost, it's a 1993/94 Tange tubeset model.

I will take your word that the bike has been repainted to look like a late model "Saronni" one, and it has been given modern Saronni decals. There is always the possibility though, that it was made within the last 5 years. If it has been repainted, I think it's a shame they've done it up to look like a modern Master, which you can buy from Colnago today. The old Columbus Gilco tubing was superior to the Taiwanese stuff they use today...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:36 am 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 100
Location: Sydney
Also, just realised that the bike in question has a threadless fork. If the fork is original to the frame, then it's no earlier than 1997.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:53 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:38 am
Posts: 19
Thanks Toff for all the help.

The frame arrived at 08:00 this morning and have spent the last 45 minutes un-wrapping it.

I'll post photos as soon as I can.

Where can I find the Frame Number?

The seller said to me that it had been resprayed, can't vouch for that,

BB has the words Colnago underneath, Seatpost is 27.2mm (just measured with my Calipers)

Forks have an A-head converter in them, but are threaded with what looks like a C-Record Headset (could do with cleaning or some new bearings, can you get new bearings for the C-Record Headset?).

The seller also sent me the Elite Ally Bottle Cage, a real thing of Beauty, where am I going to get a second one of them?

Appreciate all your help, thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:03 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:38 am
Posts: 19
I found the serial number on the drop outs, it was obscured by the quick release, it's 1H328 or 1H328, little bit of wear to the top of the 6, so can't make that out

I have just quick grabbed a couple of pictures before it pished down and of the bottle cage as well: -

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I was kicking myself for selling my Shamals as they would have gone really nice on this, however the Neutrons Ultras suite this even better.

I wonder how quick I can get this built, got an Audax on Saturday, but can't see me getting the bars and stem before then...or maybe as I have some Cinelli Neos with the correct Stem in the Garage :-)

I really hope I can find a matching bottle cage as I think it is a work of art.

I'll post more as it gets built, but some of you will kill me for giving it a modern kick!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:38 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 100
Location: Sydney
Nice... So it's a 90s Master. The headset is older than the frame by a couple of years... I'd be inclined to get a quill stem. Apart from looking much better, it's probably going to be lighter than the setup it was running too. You can buy those Elite Cuissi Gel bottle cages everywhere. Elite still make them. I would get the older Elite Cuissi bottle cages though. (The ones with the buttons, not the gel.) Just my opinion, but they are period correct, and I think they look nicer.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:40 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:38 am
Posts: 19
Doing a bit of research about the age, I came up with an interesting post on http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 95814.html

The poster claims the following: -

Quote:
FWIW, weeks ago, I located a post on the net (not sure if it was this site or not...but I copied it to my computer files as reference material) showing a Colnago rear deraileur side dropout with serial number 8E791. A reader guessed it was a 1988 model, stating "That serial number format is fairly common in the bicycle industry. Typically the first number represents the year, the letter represents the month and the remaining numbers are the sequence. So, the 79th frame of May 1988 would be my educated guess."


So this would put my frame at October 1991 and it was the 326th or 328th frame of the year, which seems to fit all the theories anyway.

Confession to make, whilst fitting the BB cups my tool caught the BB, can't believe it and am sickened, anyone tell me where to get a touch up paint from to match approx.?


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