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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:00 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:27 pm
Posts: 42
Hello forum, first time poster here, so please be gentle. I have just acquired a frame which I plan to restore, but am looking to date it first. Having emailed Harry Hall's son's shop and got no reply, I thought I would turn to the experts.

It is painted as 'Ted Pritchard' but the frame number suggests Harry Hall - 319HH410.

I have done a few hours of searching but failed to come up with much information on Ted Pritchard. It looks like he might have been a cyclist, then a frame builder with a shop, in Chobham, Surrey.
Harry Hall on the other hand, had a shop in Manchester, now run by his son. It looks like a few people built frames for him, and that he may have turned his hand to it himself.
So is it a frame built in Surrey but sold in Manchester? Or would it have been built in Manchester by Harry Halls builders, then ended up in Surrey with Ted Pritchard's name on it as he sold it from his shop? I guess the model number holds the key..
It is made of Reynolds 531 tubing with Nervex lugs.


Attachments:
File comment: Lovely lugs
ted2.jpg
ted2.jpg [ 165.45 KiB | Viewed 698 times ]
ted1.jpg
ted1.jpg [ 147.2 KiB | Viewed 698 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:47 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
I've not heard of Ted Pritchard, but my guess is that Hall's may very well have built frames for the trade (how it ended up at TP's), or quite simply TP had customer for a frame and happened upon a suitable one at HH's.

Many builder's built for the trade, as many shops did not actually build frames themselves, but it was common practice to put the shop's name on a frame.

Suggest rather than email HH's I would call them: might help if you need to make a purchase, even if only a cable set - might help oil the wheels.

If it is an HH I'd restore it as one.

Roadking.

P.S Nervex lugs by the way.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:43 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:27 pm
Posts: 42
So do you think it is more likely a HH build, painted with TP? The frame number would suggest so? Or could TP have built it and Hall's stamped it.
Hmm, wee phonecall is in order.
I will remember and mention the lugs. Nervex.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:10 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8223
Location: Cumbria
What a nice looking frame :D

I worked at Cliff Pratt Cycles in Hull and BITD they made their own frames but also sold frames made elsewhere but with their own name on them....it was usual practice for the frame builder to stamp their number on it but there might have been an additional stock number stamped by the shop as well....

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... pratt.html

Shaun


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:04 am 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5131
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
Can you provide a photo of the whole frame not just the headtube? TBA, from the photos you have shown, I would say that a frame of this vintage might not not have been built at Harry's premises. It was Roger Kowalski that worked at the shop frame building and his era was possibly out of the Nervex Pro time. I note that the 'flanges' at the top and bottom of the head lugs have not been removed. Most 'craftsmen' builders filed these off but some of the jobbing builders for the trade left them on. Not saying that this means it is not a good frame by any means which is why an overall view would be useful as some small details might help to identify and date it. It also seems strange that a London shop would buy a frame from a Manchester shop (not necessarily known for trade dealings) when there were so many good trade builders in the London area.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:41 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:27 pm
Posts: 42
I have attached the only photos I have just now, but they are not great. I will try and take some in better light next week.
Ted Pritchard died tragically in 1968. Not sure if that has any bearing on dating the frame.


Attachments:
dropouts.jpg
dropouts.jpg [ 157.81 KiB | Viewed 629 times ]
frame1.jpg
frame1.jpg [ 145.85 KiB | Viewed 629 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:12 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5131
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
You know, without the benefit of close-ups (particularly the seat cluster area) it looks a bit like a Viking to me. They built for the trade and certainly used Nervex Pro lugs on several models.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:27 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:08 pm
Posts: 2185
Location: Shrewsbury
Mike Kowal used to build frames for Harry Hall, although many Harry Hall frames carry no frame number so dating isn't straight forward.

In my experience the current shop never seem to show much interest in their heritage, either that or they have no records.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:40 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Forest of Dean
Ted ran the cycle shop in Chobham until he tragically died, the shop is now a house and I always look towards it as I drive past. It was one of those shops that was small and scruffy but was packed with stock. I think the shop finally closed in 1970 when his wife decided to call it a day, they lived upstairs or in the house next door and she used to bring sandwiches in for him with a cuppa.

I think he used to renovate bikes and have them resprayed and his own transfers put on so this may explain the frame's history.

Rob


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:39 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:27 pm
Posts: 42
Viking?!

Thank you for the Ted Pritchard info Rob. It's interesting stuff all this.

The lady who sold me the frame doesn't know a great deal about it, but she thinks it was made by Harry Hall's. Unfortunately they got back to me to say they have no records since they moved premises.

It's starting to look like a Harry Hall bicycle, although Old Ned - you have issue with dating it as such? If it is one, I guess I should restore it as one. Although it is a slight shame to lose the TP name. Hmm.

I will upload some better pictures next week.


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