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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:13 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 am
Posts: 194
Location: London SW
Their approach might not be stupid... if they make it in to a food and drink festival, there is a chance the local community backs it and gets involved, if they make it into yet another big ride, just with people wearing wool, there is a good chance the local community ignores it at best. Unlike France and italy, cycling is not part of the popular culture and Barry Hoban and the likes mean nothing to the vast majority of folks on the territory...
Had Simpson won the Tour instead of dying in it, we would probably tell a different tale


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:24 am 
PoTM Winner
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The organisers are away of Retrobike and this topic as I have had a brief email dialogue with someone called Sally.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:29 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1112
Making the cycling aspect unaffordable to most ordinary people seems a bad idea. It's a shame that the strongest 'retro' culture in the UK is tweed rides with bikes and equipment unaccessible to most people.

Retro biking is a great way into cycling for everyone because you can start off with a 50 quid bike from gumtree and go from there. Why not build on that, instead of having another exclusive event that only well off people can pay for?

Agreed, the food side of it gives it a broader appeal, but why not use that broader appeal to then make people more aware of British cycling heritage? It wouldn't cost much extra after all. I think it's a shame people don't know who people like Hoban and Bainbridge are, and their stories are fascinating. This is a chance to try to change that.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:43 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 am
Posts: 194
Location: London SW
Johnsqual wrote:
Making the cycling aspect unaffordable to most ordinary people seems a bad idea. It's a shame that the strongest 'retro' culture in the UK is tweed rides with bikes and equipment unaccessible to most people.

Retro biking is a great way into cycling for everyone because you can start off with a 50 quid bike from gumtree and go from there. Why not build on that, instead of having another exclusive event that only well off people can pay for?

Agreed, the food side of it gives it a broader appeal, but why not use that broader appeal to then make people more aware of British cycling heritage? It wouldn't cost much extra after all. I think it's a shame people don't know who people like Hoban and Bainbridge are, and their stories are fascinating. This is a chance to try to change that.


There is a huge scene of "cheap events". There are at least a dozen Audaxes around the country every given saturday and sunday, plus a few every other day of the week. There are time trials you can enter for 3 pounds or nothing if you belong to the organising club. There are road races you can enter for less than a tenner and there are charity rides and sportives which cost 15-20 pounds including food stops.

There are a number of overpriced events (50-80 pounds), but they are a minority... most sportives cost 20-30 pounds... Now, you can argue that's a lot of money, but to be fair a new chain costs 20-30 pounds, a new set of tyres costs more than that... so yes, 55 pounds is expensive, but in the grand scheme of things is not a lot of money and travelling to do an event like the Retro ronde will cost 3-400 pounds when you include everything.
I think most people put off by a high entry fee are put off by the concept of charging a lot of money to ride on public roads rather than not being able to afford the entry fee.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:49 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:03 pm
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I think we need to suck it and see. It's early days and there have already been changes to the price, so things may get mere interesting nearer the date. It's the first one, so there will always be things that could be done better.

But I agree, they do need to make this more of a historic cycling event somehow and I'm not interested if it is just a festival of cheese, pies and beer. I also think 5000 is an overly optimistic estimate as the majority will have to find not only the entrance fee but an old bike as well just for the event.

I've pre-registered to keep my options open but I plan to do the Retro Ronde at least next year.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:05 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 am
Posts: 194
Location: London SW
I don't know where the number 5000 comes from. I don't think anyone can realistically expect 5000 entrants. 1000 would be a huge success and 500 would be good, in line with edition 1 of great events like the Anjou Velo Vintage, which has a better oiled advertising machine in place and it's held in the Loire Valley, which is one of the top destinations for tourism.
The Japanese Eroica (Ayku or similar) had a handful of entrants on year one


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:27 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1112
ugo.santalucia wrote:
Johnsqual wrote:
Making the cycling aspect unaffordable to most ordinary people seems a bad idea. It's a shame that the strongest 'retro' culture in the UK is tweed rides with bikes and equipment unaccessible to most people.

Retro biking is a great way into cycling for everyone because you can start off with a 50 quid bike from gumtree and go from there. Why not build on that, instead of having another exclusive event that only well off people can pay for?

Agreed, the food side of it gives it a broader appeal, but why not use that broader appeal to then make people more aware of British cycling heritage? It wouldn't cost much extra after all. I think it's a shame people don't know who people like Hoban and Bainbridge are, and their stories are fascinating. This is a chance to try to change that.


There is a huge scene of "cheap events". There are at least a dozen Audaxes around the country every given saturday and sunday, plus a few every other day of the week. There are time trials you can enter for 3 pounds or nothing if you belong to the organising club. There are road races you can enter for less than a tenner and there are charity rides and sportives which cost 15-20 pounds including food stops.

There are a number of overpriced events (50-80 pounds), but they are a minority... most sportives cost 20-30 pounds... Now, you can argue that's a lot of money, but to be fair a new chain costs 20-30 pounds, a new set of tyres costs more than that... so yes, 55 pounds is expensive, but in the grand scheme of things is not a lot of money and travelling to do an event like the Retro ronde will cost 3-400 pounds when you include everything.
I think most people put off by a high entry fee are put off by the concept of charging a lot of money to ride on public roads rather than not being able to afford the entry fee.


Fine, but the trails and side roads used in L'E B are also publicly accessible for free so there is no reason to charge a lot extra just to use those routes.

I don't know where the high price comes from, but I don't think using the roads generates a large extra cost and that alone doesn't justify the high price. Maybe something else does, but I don't see what if, as you claim, it's possible to organise a sportive or audax or whatever for just a few quid per entrant.

Also, several of the people with whom I ride retro events are just getting into cycling or are non-hardcore cyclists. They much prefer the retro events because they are not only cheaper to enter, but the bikes they can use are less expensive too, and they don't have to put up with snide remarks about riding an old bike (which I and others have had at Sportive events, several times).

My point was that retro rides are much more accessible to a broad range of people, and could be used to get more people into cycling in an affordable way.

Of course L'E B is cheaper than the RRVV if you include the costs of getting there, but that's completely irrelevant to anyone except hardcore retro riders.

The RRVV has lots of women, kids, people with all kinds of bikes taking part. It's a really inclusive event. Surely you can't seriously be arguing that such an event would still be as inclusive if people were asked to pay 5-6 times as much?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:47 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2098
Location: Sheffield, top city
Johnsqual wrote:
Making the cycling aspect unaffordable to most ordinary people seems a bad idea.
lets get this straight - ordinary people aren't into retrobiking. They will have a cheap-mediocre hybrid or MTB from Decathlon/Evans.
Quote:
Retro biking is a great way into cycling for everyone because you can start off with a 50 quid bike from gumtree and go from there.
joe public won't have time, skill or inclination to find such a bike and make it roadworthy. Take it to a LBS and it becomes no longer a £50 bike, but one for hundreds. and bear in mind, these bikes were the BSO's of their day.
Quote:
Why not build on that, instead of having another exclusive event that only well off people can pay for?
to me that's the way retrobiking has gone. Ebay and traders have pushed up prices so that it is no longer economically viable to keep your old stuff running. I now find economical to run most of my bikes on 10 speed modern stuff than stick with say 8 speed.
I'm sure there's a specialist community out there who will help each other out, but to the masses, if you want that that campag oil clip, it will cost.

Quote:
I think it's a shame people don't know who people like Hoban and Bainbridge are, and their stories are fascinating. This is a chance to try to change that.
as a hardened 30 yr+ cyclist, I've never heard of the latter (shame on me probably), but what chance has joe public got?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:52 am 
PoTM Winner
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pigman wrote:
Quote:
I think it's a shame people don't know who people like Hoban and Bainbridge are, and their stories are fascinating. This is a chance to try to change that.
as a hardened 30 yr+ cyclist, I've never heard of the latter (shame on me probably), but what chance has joe public got?


me neither ... :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:04 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:52 pm
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Location: Trancecentral
Montello wrote:
pigman wrote:
Quote:
I think it's a shame people don't know who people like Hoban and Bainbridge are, and their stories are fascinating. This is a chance to try to change that.
as a hardened 30 yr+ cyclist, I've never heard of the latter (shame on me probably), but what chance has joe public got?


me neither ... :oops:


Nor me.

I'll go for the weekend with the wife and dog and bikes. Not as a rider but to enjoy the weekend. If they make it into a festival of sorts I'm all for it. As for the above quote well that would just require someone to book a venue, a pub, a cafe or somewhere outside and give a talk or presentation, a few of these would make for a great event and not just a pay to enter ride with spectators.

Something along the lines of The Bike Show talk, many cafe's in Bakewell would welcome punters staying put for an hour.

http://thebikeshow.net/


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