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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:35 pm 
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I am a little confused - there was no test for EPO but there must have been one for haematocrit levels if the level was set at 50. I do think that this was an error on the UCI's part. To compare it with drink driving - you can drink up to the level but not above to fail a test - this might encourage some people to drink to that level which is not a good thing. If you had naturally occuring alcohol in your body some people could drink more than others.


Last edited by TGR on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:15 pm 
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NeilM wrote:
hamster wrote:
Remember that there was no EPO test at the time - so the UCI had to base its decisions on a 'smoking gun' rather than the presence of the drug itself. I agree that it in some ways encouraged it, but it was a pragmatic decision when little else was available.


There was no test for EPO, but there were a host of specialist and research Doctors who advised the UCI and many others (including race teams) that a haematocrit of 50 was unnaturally high.


Exactly. In the absence of a specific EPO test they measured haematocrit instead as a proxy. As 50 was beyond normal levels, it was the cutoff.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:01 am 
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I understand the use of haematocrit to indicate EPO useage but i still think that the UCI's approach to doping was flawed. The level playing field was achieved by use of EPO and those who were caught seem to have been caught accidentally - by mis-injecting or not having measured their levels accurately.

I do not think that this period of cycling should be forgotten and it would be very interesting to have accurate records of who was using EPO etc during this period (i know that will probably never happen) - but if everyone (i mean everyone) was using EPO and associated drugs, surely their race wins should be counted as a win - in the spirit of a level playing field. This may seem like an unusual take on this, but i think it is fair.

I better re-iterate that i do not condone doping but i feel that the top riders (who presumably were all doping) should be given credit for their wins. I wonder if there has been a situation were a rider was disqualified from a race for doping and his win credited to another rider , who was subsequently disqualified for doping, for the win to be credited to a third place rider. Perhaps some RBer will know if that has happened.

I have ordered the David Miller book, wish my post was a bit quicker!!!

Thanks for reading all,

Richard


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:56 am 
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TGR wrote:
. I wonder if there has been a situation were a rider was disqualified from a race for doping and his win credited to another rider , who was subsequently disqualified for doping, for the win to be credited to a third place rider. Perhaps some RBer will know if that has happened.


This is the reason why Armstrongs results at the TdF have been removed and the winning slot left blank, as there is just no way of knowing who had taken how much of what.

According to Paul Kimmage, in both his book and subsiquent writing, just about everyone in the peleton was taking something or another. However, Joe Parkin suggests that was far from the case in the late 80's and early 90's when EPO first appeared, not necessarily for honourable reasons, but as much because it was financially beyond the reach of the average domestique.

David Miller's book is good, and well worth the read, but you should also get A Dog in a Hat by Joe Parkin for a slightly different view of the same period.

As for organised use of drugs; from what I have read the Italians had that sorted years before Armstrong, he just took it to another level.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Thanks for that, i have not heard og the Joe Parkin book before. I certainly do not like LA but perhaps the result should stand which some smallprint detailed the circumstances. Deleting a name will not delete the fact that he was was awarded first place initially. Perhaps in future the 'missing name' will ensure that he is remembered as people investigate who and why he is missing.

thanks for the book tip,

Richard


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Like I said, take a look in the book thread at the top of the page, loads of good suggestions there.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:33 pm 
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Thanks Neil, i will have a look.

Richard


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