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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:22 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:54 pm
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Hello

After trying to persuade my various LBSs to build me a wheelset this month, I have given up and am going to do it myself.

Spocalc shows I need three types of spoke:
- 283
- 281
- 280

First question, can I buy one length (e.g. 282) to cover all needs?

Second question, I am building the wheels 3X using rims without eyelets (IRD Cadence Aero - they get good reviews), what tension should I use?

If it helps, I am 72kg and will be using the wheels for racing.

Thanks for any advice

Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:33 pm 
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i am not a pro wheelbuilder but have built a few for my own use .

i would say 282 is fine . i have never worried about tension , as long as the wheel is centered and runs true .

i now have the tool to measure tension so , might measure on the next set i build .


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Spokes are usually available in at least 2mm increments, so you'd be better off getting some 280 and others 282, if you can. Depending where each length is for (front/rearDS/readNDS) then you might not want to be 2mm longer than calculated, as you might end up running out of threads and not being able to put enough tension on the spoke. Likewise, if you go too short, then the nipple and spoke will not have all the threads interlocked, so there's an increased risk of the spoke pulling through the nipple. Again, it depends where this combination is though - on a standard 28/32/26 spoke symmetrical wheel, rear drive side has the highest tension, so is probably the most critical to get the right length for.

As for tension, check the rim specs to see what they advise. I'm no expert either, and up to now have always taken my wheels to the LBS for final trueing. Even tension between all spokes is more important than having a higher average tension with greater differences between spokes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:51 am 
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The only way I know how to determine tension accuratley is with a tension gauge. I can tell if I am in the ball park by feel but I cannot dicrimate 100N variations even 200N variations by feel alone. The good thing is while even tension is important so long as the spoke are tight enough not too loose tension when riden, then all will be well with the wheel in the long term. So if you avoid the low tension rims like the Mavic OP, DT Swiss RR415 e.t.c and pick something like a Rigida Chrina then you wind the tension up as much as you like. With the Chrina I have found even 1300N of tension does not upset it. Also avoid for your first build hubs with poor rear spacings. Pick a shimano hub the flange spacings give a good tension balance. NDS tension 50% of the DS is what you get with a shimano hub. If you are using for example a 11 speed hub your tension balance will low to mid 40% and then you will a tension gauge to avoid one NDS spoke having too low a tension.

So just tension the spokes enusre its dished and try to get it straight and round to within 0.5mm. If the spokes are equally painful when grasped in pairs when squeezed I think your wheel will last well.

Why your LBS's are turning away work I cannot understand. That the one thing in business you don't do ever.

On spoke lenghts, I will not advise on that as I only advise on spoc length if I know the rim and hub to be used and I have measureed them myself. I do not trust any manufacturers ERD claims as ERD can be measured to give an acceptable range. I know how like to measure and that works.

If you post the rim and hub you have in mind. If I have used them then I can tell what I have used. Maybe someone else will have done that build as well.

One last thing as I advised someone else who called me up asking for spoke length advise. Measure the ERD of the rim yourself, if you do you will get the measurement it really is and you will be able to determine roundness of the rim. You don't want to start a build and then find your rim is egged by say 2mm.

I am not trying to put you off doing it yourself. Give it a go it is worthwhile.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:28 am 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:19 pm
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Just built a pair of wheels for the first time in a ages, took a while but very rewarding. As advised I would use 280mm for the rear drive side as you may need a high tension this side to dish the wheel correctly. 282 should be fine for the front and non drive side. Always handy to have a similar well built wheel for referencing tension if you don't have a meter.
For spokes I use Cyclebasket, they have ACI double butted spokes for a very good price and the service was excellent.
Take your time and enjoy!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:35 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:03 pm
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I built a pair of cadence's up a few years ago, with the rear a VSR (not sure if the aero is the same).

I found them to wear really quickly, ie they were made from chocolate, they weren't particularly round to start with in any direction and were quite expensive for what they were.

Ive built loads of wheels over the years, not just for myself, but for others, and had all sorts of use (racing to clydesdale riders etc), and these were the only ones i've ever had a problem with after the initial build :-/

If its your first time building, i'd go and pick a better quality rim to start with :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:06 pm 
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The cadance is actually a Kinlin rim. I think its a Kinlin XR-240. I have never built with the 240's but I do biuld with the XR-200's and XR300 and I have never had a built issue with them.

They will wear quickly if abrasive pads are used. They are light rims for their depth and one of the way of acheiveing that is to reduce the thickness of the braking surface. So use a soft brake pad and you will get good wear life from them but not the pad.


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