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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:26 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
This is a CLAUD Butler, and has NO lugs. It is bronze welded.
Produced before Claud Butler was bankrupt. As the history shows.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:28 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8236
Location: Cumbria
Where?

:D

Shaun


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:19 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:19 am
Posts: 1195
Location: Worthing, W.Sussex
Head badge is the same as ly '63butler


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:40 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Northern Ireland
OldTel, I saw your bike when I was searching the other day and of all the examples I could find ,thought it was the closest to my own.Your bike looks really nice,I would like to do something similar to my own.1949 and still usable that's some quality.I would be prepared to pay for a good paint job as I think the bike justifies it.I have another Claud, a Colstar, from the Holdsworth era, which I bought in 80/81,as a frame and forks,new from Freewheel in London.I then built it up myself as funds allowed it is equipped with Campagnolo gears and I want to renovate it,I will probably transfer its gear over to this bike and bring the "newer bike" up to modern equipment spec.This old Claud was the most comfortable bike I've owned and I would like to get it refurbish back to some semblance of respectability.
Excel, I had thought that the Avant Coureur was the closest to my bike and that it was probably a 1949 model, but on another site someone said they thought the serial denoted a 1939,but I was not convinced as the bilam technique did not seem to be around then or at the very least much more uncommon


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:16 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
The head badge appears to be one from a Holdsworthy, not even drilled straight.
The frame number does not make any sense to me, is there one on the fork column?
The two plate crown is typical of around 1952.
Does anyone know what was made when Claud tried to restart in retail with Evelyn Hamilton, of course the Holdsworthy Company (not Holdsworth) were a bit upset about that, having just bought the name.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:55 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 455
Location: N. Herts
HI, you can see in the 1949 catalogue, it looks like its the Avant Coureur with a '9' fork type ( oval blades ), my sport anglais is the other type of fork with round blades. The article on Classic Lightweights sums up the Bilamination technique, which does create a very strong light frame ( my frame weighs 4 Ib ), as far as 39 or 49 Claud started commercially producing bilams after the war, and also the frame angles are post rather than pre war. If I was you I would strip it and give a gentle clean and polish ( a good car wax will do it ), you maybe surprised and it might allow funds to target some quality parts, check out the 'readers bikes' on classic lightweight for some possible component ideas, new'ish or old it should reflect your view of the bike. I found this ( half way down the page ) http://musicbicycles.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/claud-butler-classic-bicycles.html, and thought you may like it. Terry


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:43 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Northern Ireland
Hi,OT.Thank you very much, that beautiful red Avant Coureur could be mine, bar a few braze on cable stops and the Osgear rear fork ends.My bike had an Osgear fork end with the same long tang on the drive side.I my youthful ignorance I removed it.That really is a lovely looking frame and forks.If it was made in November, it was just the month after mine, if the serial no on my bike represents October 1949. 63 years young hey!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:11 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
Osgear fork ends had a notch at the front like a vertical drop out, nothing like these. The long descender was to assist any wheel replacement. Again, nothing to do with Osgear or similar.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:47 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Northern Ireland
I only called them Osgear because someone else did,I wouldn't know an Osgear forkend if I was to find one in the soup I am currently consuming.Looking again at nkilgariff, those pattern fork ends were first in the CB catalogue for 1938 and are CB's own designs


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:21 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
Just trying to correct an often quoted error. I had the genuine osgear ends in a frame I had built in 1951, so am old enough to remember them.
I used a super champion osgear for a time the previous year, and pretty useless it was. I changed to a benelux 10 speed with 2 handlebar controls in 1950, and could change both at once off the saddle.


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