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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:34 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Northern Ireland
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88104625@N07/8057573424/ Have a look at these and tell me what you make of them.It is very old.I have owned it for at least 35 years and it was old when I bought it.I have tried the ctc,yacf and cycle-chat forums for info.I have now discovered yourselves,I've spent a good bit of Xmas day using the search here to look up all the relevant threads I can find.The serial no reads 9103937 the only original bits bar f&f are the bars and stem .The rest is all stuff from the late 70's, 80's when I renovated it after I bought it.I have not used it for years ,my big bro had it on permanent loan,but now I have it back I'd be keen to refurbish it but I would like to know it's age .I've been to nkilgariff's site but i am still unsure of the serial no method of dates.help would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:57 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:11 pm
Posts: 1842
Location: wellingborough
nice looking bike with great lugwork.

have a look at this link http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/ClaudButler.htm

and see if it helps


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:05 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Moneyscalp N.Ireland
looks like a Claud Butler "Avant Coureur" from the late 1940's (possibly 1949) these had bi-laminate lugs for added strength
<< http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... ncent.html >>


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:02 am 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:54 am
Posts: 1059
Location: Derby
Have you seen?
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/claudbutler.html

And

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... ncent.html


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:57 am 
Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Northern Ireland
Hi,thanks for the replies.I've read most of those links you have supplied over the past two days.I think what is confusing me is,I can not see a bike the same as my own. one example will have the axe head pattern lugs like mine, but the seat clamp or the fork ends will be different ,another will have the same fork end but different lugs or fork crown.There seems to be so many permutations.When I obtained mine the drive side rear fork end had a long tang at the chain stay end of the axle slot,of course in youthful foolishness I removed this as it was not fashionable at that time.The serial no should mean something. is it 1939 or 1949,I read somewhere that the bilams only became available in the late forties but then a few sentences later that there was an example from much earlier in 1939.The seat clamp is an example,when did cb stop using the separate collar and move to the attached Allen key type.I had many happy miles on this bike,commuting, club riding.I toured on it, old green karrimor panniers front and rear and a karrimor barbag.It was fixed wheel when I got it.the forks and stays were chrome for the first 6 to 8 inches.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:50 am 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:19 am
Posts: 1195
Location: Worthing, W.Sussex
Interestin bike. The shifters and crank are 70's. Nice lug work. Claud didn't use pop rivetts for the head badge, so it may have been replaced, or be a later model.

Have a look here, there are most of the catalogue's on line....

http://www.nkilgariff.com/

Dave


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:29 am 
Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Northern Ireland
Piperdave you are correct in your observation about the head tube badge.It dates from the late 80's when I first got it and had it re-enamelled.I think,the memory is a bit hazy, that the original badge was a flat brass plate with the details etched or engraved into it. Any body out there who knows about the serial no, if we could pin that down then I could look more closely at the catalogues on nkilgariff. All the bits on it are late seventies early eighties,except the bars and stem, they are original to when it came to me.I was a poor schoolboy student at the time and what you see was the best I could afford at the time.Memory is coming back of J D Whisker,Freewheel or Madison and Ron Kitching as sources for bits by mail order.How times change.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:51 am 
Newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Northern Ireland
In my previous post I stated that the head badge dated from the late 80's,I meant the late 70's early 80's.I would have bought this bike around about 1979/80 I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:27 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8226
Location: Cumbria
Bear in mind that BITD you could order a frame and have bits changed like braze on's / chrome / etc............rather like customising a Mini today.

Like the cranks.....Sakae Ringyo from the 70's :D

Shaun


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:33 pm 
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 455
Location: N. Herts
Hi, nice bike, should tidy up up to something special. For your info, I should think it was made in Oct 1949 judging from the code, there is a 1949 catalogue on Norman Kilgariff's superb site for your reference, but as indicated most 1940/50's bikes, were customised to what the customer wanted, and during its life further changes are bound to of happened, but that's all part of a bikes history. As a referece that may help, I've a Claud Butler Sport Anglais that was made in July 1949 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tk_photos/4760086966/ which was a model below the AC, but as you can see, things evolve, your bottom bracket has an extended bilam support that was used in the early fifties top clauds. The seat post clip must of changed sometime in 1950 but it would be difficult to place exactly, and as in most bike historical 'facts', there will be exceptions. As far as the head badge is concerned, I believe they did do the brass/ally Olympic badge about this time. to celebrate the 1948 Olympics ?, any further help just ask. Terry


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