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 Post subject: Rims choices
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:48 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Hexham
Hi
1965 holdsworth and the spacing etc is for 700s, what do I look for and where? I was thinking of doing the L'eroica next year and thought clinchers would give me more versatility but I am unsure of what to get.
Cheers john


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:36 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
I take it by"spacing"you're referring to brake drop?

I'm sure a 1965 Holdsworth would have been built for 27" rims (my 1967 is), borrow one of each and take a look at the brake drop - 700s IMO would look wrong in a frame built for 27s, big gaps and long brake drops.

Clinchers are preferable especially if you have little experience with tubs (your likely to get a flat on the 'roica) and clinchers these days are very good - even 27s like the Pasela.

Hope this helps.

Roadking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:44 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Hexham
Here's a picture of it with a pair of schwalbe milano 700 x 22 tubs on. As you can see in the pics the brake shoes are at there highest and if I tried to fit 27s I wouldn't be able to get the blocks any higher. The frame has a cable stop for centre pulls, and I have tried the weinmans pictured and also a pair of mafacs too and both would be at there highest pad setting with the 700 wheel. Both brakes are at there extreme and the forks have a matching frame number so they are the right forks too. It's either supposed to works with 700s or I need brakes with a lower drop, and if that's the case do they exist?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... t=1&ref=nf

Cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:17 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Weinmann (and Mafac) made both side pull and centre pull brakes in two"drops" -

With the Weinmann side pull 730 is the standard drop, 730/500 is the shallow version, same with the centre pulls (still a very good and underrated brakeset) 999/750 is the standard drop, 999/610 is the shallow.

I still believe your Holdsworth was made for 27s, just a question of having the correct brakes - my Mistral with Weinmann 999/750s will accomodate a 27" (which is has now and had when new) or a 700c rim.

I'd like to see some close ups to comment further.

Rk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:14 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5133
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
Are we sure it really is a Holdsworth? Fast back seatstays, vertical rear dropouts, Nervex pro lugs, flat fork crown? Did they make a model with these features at that time?

Whatever it is it looks an OK bike and the tyre clearances under the rear bridge and fork crown look to small for 27" wheels to me.

I would use a pair of 700c clinchers for L'Eroica with as big a sprocket on the rear that you can get the gear to work with!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:24 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Old Ned wrote:
Are we sure it really is a Holdsworth? Fast back seatstays, vertical rear dropouts, Nervex pro lugs, flat fork crown? Did they make a model with these features at that time?

Whatever it is it looks an OK bike and the tyre clearances under the rear bridge and fork crown look to small for 27" wheels to me.

I would use a pair of 700c clinchers for L'Eroica with as big a sprocket on the rear that you can get the gear to work with!


Ned,

I was trying to avoid a debate about what it is...rather trying to help the OP with what was suitable rim-wise and brake-wise.

As a general point about Holdsworth, the"shop"bikes could have been built to any specification, in fact my own Mistral does not conform to any published catalalogue spec - it is a Mistral...but one with a few bespoke additions.

Even the (post 1975) factory frames/bikes were not always to catalogue spec', my other, later frame is not.

Cheers. Roadking.

P.S Ned, I did do the Anjou this year - did you? Am back again next year too, it's a lovely little event and not far.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:33 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Hexham
I tried a pair of 27s in today at work and they don't look far off, some shallower drop calipers may help this. The forks have closer tolerances than the frame and I agree the bike may look more proportioned with 27s. The frame has a holdsworth frame number 65115k and the paint looks pretty original.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:36 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Hexham
I have checked the mafacs that I have against a 610 wienmann and it looks about the same so I think I am safe for brakes. The weinmans that were on the bike are the red label ones so are obviously a later addition. I would think 700s have been fitted at a later date and different brakes fitted accordingly.

As for the frame features RK I think your right, shop frames did vary from the catalogue models. The drop outs are vertical, they are simplex ones and the only info I can find out about these was that they were to be shown at a 1964 bike show and the details that I found were a drawing with a caption.

I have so far got the frame took apart and cleaned up, it was covered in yellow gunk. I have Mafacs waiting to go on and campagnolo Nuovo record parts and now I am looking for 27 x 1 1/4 36 hole rims, if anyone knows what type and where to find these I would be greatful.
Thanks john


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:51 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Chuck moo wrote:
I have checked the mafacs that I have against a 610 wienmann and it looks about the same so I think I am safe for brakes. The weinmans that were on the bike are the red label ones so are obviously a later addition. I would think 700s have been fitted at a later date and different brakes fitted accordingly.

As for the frame features RK I think your right, shop frames did vary from the catalogue models. The drop outs are vertical, they are simplex ones and the only info I can find out about these was that they were to be shown at a 1964 bike show and the details that I found were a drawing with a caption.

I have so far got the frame took apart and cleaned up, it was covered in yellow gunk. I have Mafacs waiting to go on and campagnolo Nuovo record parts and now I am looking for 27 x 1 1/4 36 hole rims, if anyone knows what type and where to find these I would be greatful.
Thanks john


You shouldn't have any great difficulty sourcing good rims at a sensible price: Holdsworth often fitted Starals (hard to find these days) but Weinmanns are a good and plentiful choice and build up well.

My Mistral has Campag throughout apart from brakes, it has Weinmann 999s, a good and underrated brakeset - think I already said that!

Good luck, let's see it when you've finished.

Rk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:39 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 am
Posts: 194
Location: London SW
H plus son tb14 is probably the best compromise between a classic rim and one that you actually want to ride. Excellent finish, superb quality...


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