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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:53 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:57 pm
Posts: 10
What on earth is this bike? Found near the south coast of the UK, its got an odd combination of bits, but also some aspects of quality. I originally posted the bare bones of some these details in the C&V forum, but what follows here follows further investigation including looking inside the head tube for any remnants of a headbadge fixing (didn’t find anything), as well as the indicators from that earlier post.

What follows below is a list of everything that defines the bike. I’ve put pics up here (in its work in progress state):

http://s1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii594/empiricist1/

Even if you can’t make a completely positive id, some informed guesses might be useful!

Frame:
no headbadge or holes (checked inside head tube)
BB accepts English threaded cups
BB stamp underneath = “DD 136” or possibly “DD 196”
Butted tubing (seatpost = 27.2mm)
Campy rear dropouts (spacing =122mm)
See lugwork leaf detail on pics
Paint is either original or was from a bare metal respray
Seat tube measures more like 58cm than 23” – although the measurement is tricky because the top of the tube is scalloped
I’m told Reynolds decals are circa 1984 (but may not be original)

Components:
Tange headset, Shimano light action shifters + mechs, 105 cranks, Shimano BB Axle with adjustable cups, Shimano SLR brake levers. Biopace chainwheels.
Rigida wheels, Maillard hubs (6 spd helicomatic freewheel), Weinman 570 QR callipers.
Handlebars are Raleigh and a blue San Marco Rolls saddle was with the bike (but not fitted yet)

Any inspired guesses will be welcome!
Regards, Joe


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:09 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 276
To my eye that looks like a mid-eighties onwards Peugeot.

Headtube badge was as sticker.

After 1980 Peugeot moved all it's threading from French to English (as the phased out models the replacement models had English threading)

The lugs are pretty standard Prugnat from that era.

The colour even looks similar to the one on the right here, allowing for fading over the years and scanning reproduction shade changes:

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:37 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:57 pm
Posts: 10
The Peugeot looks to be tantalisingly close....... one thing that strikes me is that my seatpost size looks wrong for carb 103 - didn't those frames all have posts smaller than 27.2?

(That measurement is one of the few things on this bike I'm confident about - I had a micrometer on the seatpost and then checked the fit of another one from from a reynolds 501 frame)

...then again I know very little about Peugeot!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:35 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:57 pm
Posts: 10
....... and I just saw a view expressed that suggested Peugeot didn't use campag dropouts - is that right?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:57 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5131
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
The 'capped' seat stay tops look very Raleigh'ish and not all of them had SB or W numbers.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:58 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:31 am
Posts: 585
Location: London
Raleigh frames had that type of top eyes at the top of the seat stays, where the bottom sticks out and overlaps a bit, I don't know if any other builders use it.

The bend on the forks has a distinctive shape; nearly all straight with the bend halfway. Did any Raleigh frames have this?

It looks early to mid 80s to me.


Last edited by fiks on Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:45 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8223
Location: Cumbria
Back in the late 70's Raleigh were the only ones I could think of that were using that particularly ugly seat stay design with the outer plate overlapping..........not sure how that one got past GOD ??

The shallow rake fork started mostly in the mid 70's on TT bikes and migrated to Road bikes in the later years..

Shaun


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:48 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:57 pm
Posts: 10
Hmmmm, I'm thinking now. Tiermat made me think about the lugs - they are Prugnat (which Raleigh also used in various guises) - I found this wiki link that identifies them as Type 62D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prugn ... D_lugs.jpg

But how many builders used those lugs? As Old Ned and fiks say the frame does also resemble Raleigh/Carlton in a lot of ways - for example the fork rake resembles some of the Carlton models. The fork rake attracted me to the bike initially, I thought it would make for a responsive bike - which it is, but its also an incredibly smooth ride with none of the twitchyness that you get on some 'sporty' bikes. Looking at it now, my photo doesn't show the forks square on so I'll post another pic shortly.

And the seat stay capping is distinctive - I should add in that area that the seat clamp isn't a captive nut, but the setscrew threads into the frame itslef.

I'm now playing with the thought that this frame is from a small (perhaps English) builder with previous exposure to Raleigh models. The 3 digits on the BB might denote a small production run. The "DD" might be initials - either of the builder (or may even be the iniitials of the client). Either way a custom build just might explain the slightly quirky choice of helicomatic. For now though thats just speculation - in the meantime I'll get another photo........


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:34 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:31 am
Posts: 585
Location: London
I think I read somewhere that a certain Dutch framebuilder uses that overlapping top eyes on all his frames. And he happens to be the one who originally built all the TI Raleigh team frames.

Maybe Raleigh copied it and used it for all their frames.

That fork rake shape to my eyes is not good looking.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:43 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8223
Location: Cumbria
Fork rake is classic very late 70's early 80's road style........looks nice to my eyes :) Think Pongo Braithwaite. Unlike the straight fork rake of the Precisa on the Colnago...

Shaun


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