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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:40 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 11:48 am
Posts: 15
Location: London
I have just bought this Paganini frame and don't know a huge amount about it. I wonder if anyone else can help? The seat tube decal says Columbus SLX, but i'm unsure as there doesn't seem to be any rifling in the seat tube by the bottom bracket.

Flickr album: http://www.flickr.com/photos/80396674@N ... 435913968/

Other (potentially) useful indicators are internal brake cable routing along the top tube, Gipiemme rear dropouts, an embossed marking of '61' with an 'S' below on the underside of the BB shell, and the absence of any derailleur cable guide beyond the frame itself with a steel braze on.

Particularly interested in the type of tubing if not SLX, and the general quality of the frame as i'm not convinced that decals are accurate. Having said that, any information would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:24 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:29 pm
Posts: 104
Sorry mate, I dont like what I see.
Looks like someone stuck an SLX sticker on the frame.

Paganini frames that were SL or SLX had engravings (pantograph's) all over the lugs etc.
They also had Chrome forks and rear stays. Dropouts were either Ultech, Columbus or Campagnolo.
Bottom bracket shell was Cinelli.

Yours is most likely Columbus Aelle tubing. Maybe, just maybe might be Columbus S if that S stamped on the BB relates to that.
They usually have the tubing type stamped on the original fork steerer.

The internal cable routing is typical Paganini style, so its safe to say it is an actual Paganini, just not SL or SLX tubing.

Judging by the rear caliper bracket design, it is an early Pag frame, probably pre 85/86.

Sandblast it and repaint it. Should be nice.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:55 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 11:48 am
Posts: 15
Location: London
Cooker wrote:
Sorry mate, I dont like what I see.
Looks like someone stuck an SLX sticker on the frame.

Paganini frames that were SL or SLX had engravings (pantograph's) all over the lugs etc.
They also had Chrome forks and rear stays. Dropouts were either Ultech, Columbus or Campagnolo.
Bottom bracket shell was Cinelli.

Yours is most likely Columbus Aelle tubing. Maybe, just maybe might be Columbus S if that S stamped on the BB relates to that.
They usually have the tubing type stamped on the original fork steerer.

The internal cable routing is typical Paganini style, so its safe to say it is an actual Paganini, just not SL or SLX tubing.

Judging by the rear caliper bracket design, it is an early Pag frame, probably pre 85/86.

Sandblast it and repaint it. Should be nice.


Thanks Cooker... rather the conclusion I was coming to as well! Also interesting to note that BB is English thread rather than Italian, which (if really Italian made Columbus frame) then is apparently indicative of stuff from Belgian shops like Plum-Vanqueur, who I understand sold the Paganini bikes.

Any ideas regarding as to how to work out whether frame is from Columbus Aelle, rather than something else altogether?

Spacing on rear dropouts is 126, which seems to support your thoughts regarding age.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:04 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:29 pm
Posts: 104
Lower end Paganini frames were also made from Tange Japanese Tubing, so if the BB thread is British it could be Tange tubing, but I'm unsure if Tange correlates to British thread, its just a guess.

Apart from tapping the tubing with the back of your finger nail to see if its butted or straight gauge, I don't know how to tell what brand of tubing it is.

Having Gipiemme dropouts my feeling is that it is Columbus tubing but I can't be sure.
Someone that is a tubing expert should know by looking at it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:06 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
Hi there buddy :-) I have to second what's already been said I'm afraid, but ... there is another Paganini on ebay (second listing cos it wont shift) that appears to be a genuine Pag and is carrying Columbus Aelle stickers. It looks similar in style to the one you've posted here. The thread below is from a while back when myself & another member had a few chats about his & my own Paganini's, check it out for clues :-) Mines the Red Paganini Sioux, his the rebuild.

I've seen a few Paganini's now in the last 3 years, but they are far and few between. Mine has Ultrech/Ultech ? dropouts. I've seen 1 with Columbus dropouts too. The brake bridge looks familiar, but then again its quite common on bikes from the late 80's early 90's.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=149977

Hope some of this helps :-) My best to you, Laz.

Edit: Here you go found that ebay link (It sure looks like yours)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-RETRO ... 3cc7695fab


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:29 am 
Newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:21 am
Posts: 7
Location: UK
I have a Paganini.

Lovely to ride (and look at, IMO). Columbus tubeset - if anyone has any information on how to positively identify the tubing, that would be very useful. Supposedly EL/OS

I'd be interested in finding out more...


Last edited by rkk01 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:30 am 
Newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:21 am
Posts: 7
Location: UK
... and now I have my first post, I should be able to post a photo :D

Image

ETA - with apologies for the mtb pedals...!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:46 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:31 am
Posts: 585
Location: London
I would check the weight and the seatpin size.

Heavier tubing usually had thicker walled tubing so used 27mm seatpins or smaller.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:29 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:29 pm
Posts: 104
Very nice!!!!
I like that dark red/brown colour, really looks classic.
Columbus SL most likely, going on the fact that the rear stays and front fork is chromed and the sticker on seat tube looks like early to mid 80's SL sticker. No Pag Panto's though on lugs which is odd for one with the chroming done.
You can really see the Concorde/Ciocc relationship by the Panto'd Italian flag on top tube.

If anyone is reading this thread and has a 58 or 59cm c-c columbus SL or higher Paganini I might be interested in purchasing it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:32 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 am
Posts: 194
Location: London SW
Difficult to tell by the wieght, as it's a rather large frame, so it will be over 2 Kg anyway.

Get it resprayed, get some nice new decals (try velocals in USA), stick a new SLX decal and it will be SLX.
In fairness, after 20-30 years they are what you want them to be

All this fuss about the ride quality of SLX over other decent steel is utter nonsense


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