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 Post subject: Identify this campag!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:53 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 9:27 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Southampton
What group is this?

Record?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Campagnolo-8-Speed-Rear-Derailleur-Front-Mech-Campy-Campag-/221046426156?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item337764ca2c#ht_500wt_1201

Thank you!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:00 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8202
Location: New Forest, UK
Hard to tell - artfully the back of the mech isn't shown - IIRC lowlier ones are steel cage plates, higher are Alu. It doesn't look like the high polish of Record or Chorus either.

So my guess is Veloce or Mirage. It's still good kit, just a bit heavier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:48 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:29 pm
Posts: 554
Location: Sheffield
Not Record or Chorus. Either Veloce or Mirage. Good price at the moment.
Nick


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:47 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8223
Location: Cumbria
Not my area of expertise but doesn't the cone shaped fastner holding the cable make it a Mirage ? I thought the Veloce had a flat nut ?

Shaun


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:18 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8202
Location: New Forest, UK
IIRC my Chorus one has the Allen fastener - I thought it was standard across the range.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:33 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:04 pm
Posts: 3363
Location: Completely in the dark, thanks to me good mate Terry....
hamster wrote:
Hard to tell - artfully the back of the mech isn't shown - IIRC lowlier ones are steel cage plates, higher are Alu. It doesn't look like the high polish of Record or Chorus either.

So my guess is Veloce or Mirage. It's still good kit, just a bit heavier.


Definitely low-end, but as hamster says, still decent kit. Looks a heck of a lot like Stratos to me - I had a Stratos rear mech as a Christmas pressie back in '95, as well as the matching Ergo levers with plastic "wishbone" shifters.

David


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:06 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:57 pm
Posts: 774
Mirage circa 1993/4 I reckon - had both until fairly recently that had served me well since that time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:54 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
Hi buddy :-) It's Athena BUT Athena became Centaur/Mirage in the 90's, god knows why Campag did this but alas they did :roll: If this was sold as Athena it would have campagnolo stamped on the fixing bolt head, but when it became Centaur/Mirage the nut remained shiny. It is also 2nd edition Athena, not 1st which is like Xenon (almost identical).

All said and done, this mech is 1 of the most reliable 8speeds out there IMHO. Always reliable, smooth, stays tight not slacks in the body & slant. Only folk like me who need to get out more know the differences between the Athena / Centaur / Mirage concoction :-) The front mech is also bang on for Athena that became Centaur. FYI Centaur also within 12 - 18 months after being rebadged changed to its "own design" and is also damned good kit. late 80's to mid 90's Campagnolo got it right again with design, strength, cost.

In short it's "Athena Transition Kit"

Hope this helps, all the best yours Laz.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:01 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8223
Location: Cumbria
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... 3&AbsPos=7

Blimey Laz, as you say, you need to get out more :)

Is the item for sale the same as the athena front mech on Velobase ?

Just curious.

Shaun


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:04 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
Hi Shaun :lol: "Still busy negotiating a few extra links on my chain with the missus ... I can almost reach the gate now :roll: .

"Is the item for sale the same as the athena front mech on Velobase ?"
Answer = YES in my book, BUT the difference is that the arm is chromed steel & not alloy. Other than that identical, hence my post re: transition of 1 name to another. That's Campagnolo for you, why re-design when you can simply re-brand the old for something new ?



You can all hold me to the following, its crazy but alas true. They say true life is stranger than fiction and Campagnolo need to keep taking their medication and drinking less in their lunch breaks. The following is about the chainsets, but the same applies to rear mechs, front mechs, gear levers, brake levers. The only safe area is calipers.

" The most contentious area of Campag ID lies between 1988 and about 1995. The big confusion comes when Chorus becomes Athena, and Athena becomes Chorus/Centaur/Daytona/Mirage/ Veloce. I'll try and keep this sensible :-).

Chorus 1st edition has a distinct upward curve to the bolt hole. It is also machine finished on the rear (milled). This machine finish to the inner side of the drive arm & the chainring arms makes the unit an original 1st edition 1980's Chorus. When buying, look for the machine finish, these cranks are absolute top quality. The alloy mix and overall composition is strong and well formed. When you attempt to polish this crank arm set they are difficult because the alloy & anodising is so tough. The actual anodised finish is also very superior to the later model that was still Chorus, but a Chorus just before it became Athena. The dust caps are either the rare metal type with 2 holes for removal, then later the same design with chromed plastic.

HINT: genuine 1st edition Chorus tend to have little or no pedal rub because the anodising is so good. The later unmachined Chorus is much softer and easier to mark with pedal rub / scrtaches. This anodised coat also applies to the much sought 1st edition Athena from the same period.

Athena 1st edition : " It cannot ever be confused with Chorus of the same period because the drive-side has an unmistakeable complete domed look to it, very C-Record'esque / Mavic Starfish but not quite so prominent.

If you're still with me, take some anadin/headcahe tablets. " Sometime around 1990-92 Campagnolo decided to make Athena look exactly like Chorus and Chorus like Athena. WHY .... well that's a question no-one will ever find an answer for, but here are your "easy to remember clues for ID"

Rear side of crankarm is unmachined, it is just plain simple anodised / forged with raised ID lettering. Sure there are other subtle differences, but the BIG 1 is this unmachined look. These cranks when polished have a much softer composition of alloy to them, they mark easily from pedal rub and are often found in 2nd hand condition as usable but scruffy. Even re-polished 1's scratch easily, the alloy mix is simply softer.

To make life easy, "IF I lay every variation of crankarms from 1986 to 1996 in a line you would see the subtle changes that make this transition phase of C-Record - Croce D'Aune - Chorus - Athena > Chorus - Centaur - Mirage - Veloce - present day, much easier to see. I know this because I've bought almost every variation in the last 18months and done this exact thing, lay them side by side.

Everyone (Velobase etc included) gets confused because there is no definitive transition phase diagram/explanation. It is virtually impossible to know the difference between Chorus & Athena when they swap places, because they are the same chainsets in every detail except name. Ultimately I can only tell you all this because I started life with a genuine 1988 Chorus groupset fitted by the great Keith Coppell Of Maghull. Without this as a definate in my life ID'ing would have been impossible to confirm. I later inherited a bike with a genuine Athena groupset of the same date 1988. IMHO 2 of the best groupsets ever produced by Campagnolo, C-Record being the 3rd. I would liken these 3 groupsets to their earlier counterparts of Super Record/Corsa Record/Gran Sport .... "fail safe, ever reliable, strong, long lasting, top quality Campagnolo". No matter which component you admire most from this era of 1986-1992 each individual part merits it's own existence as Top Quality."

I haven't forgotten Croce D'Aune, but for my mind it is a hybrid/transition groupset as it morphs from C-Record to Chorus/Athena, the rear mech with its fancy but beautiful long adjuster arm, the exception. The chainset for example is Athena. As I mentioned above, "The gear levers, rear mechs, brake levers ALL suffer the same confusion and throw many variations our way, ALL of this 1996-1996 period is Transition/Morph time for Campagnolo.

So Shaun, "how's the headache ? :lol:". I think 1 day soon I'll make an actual image of what I'm saying above so that folk can easily ID Campag from this very difficult era. For what it's worth, "1953-1989" isn't any easier especially around the SR/R cranksets, brakes etc. Triomphe, Victory are just a few other types. Victory brake levers for example are IMHO the best looking levers of the whole SR/R/ groupsets. That Sheild logo is simply better looking than the long worded Campag on the SR versions . I guess it takes years of being a Campagnolo fanatic to get this far, that and a short leash from the wife stopping me going out :lol: Later buddy, Laz.


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