Are these Ken Bird frames the same?

Is it my eyes or does this Ken Bird frame on Hilary Stone's website...

http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%20im ... ted-TT.jpg

Look the same as one which was sold on here a couple of weeks ago??

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... t=#1503245


Shaun

Oh yes. I really should have brought that myself, less than 10 miles away but what the hell would I have done with it!? Oh I know slapped £200 on the price and made myself a tidy little profit....

Funny that Tel,

The reason I posted I was thinking about buying it as the frame reminded me of an Aende jobby with the slotted head tube. Pongo used to fit x-ray plastic inside the head tube LOL.

I wonder what it sold for on here ?

Shaun

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... highlight=

just wondering then if Hilary Stone posts on here as atb ?

Shaun

Midlife":nqunkvpm said:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=198684&highlight=

just wondering then if Hilary Stone posts on here as atb ?

Shaun

Click to expand...

It looks that way, doesn't it ?

I do feel very sorry for fearny1979, but ATB/Hilary is doing nothing wrong in selling on the frame.

When I was in the V-CC, I sold a bike very cheaply to a fellow member (It was NOT Hilary). He asked me if I could make the bike more 'affordable' and that he wanted the bike for club runs. I sold the bike for very little money (£75) purely as a favour for a fellow member; two days later, the frame was on Ebay.

This kind of thing goes on all the time and especially so, within the V-CC. Many elderly members, unaware of the true value of their (original) bikes, sell them on to other members - who are all too keen to strip them down and then sell off the components on Ebay. The people who buy the old frames on Ebay, then require 'original' parts to be fitted - and the whole process starts again.

Like many in the V-CC, the guy who bought my bike is a 'stickler' for 'originality'; but he had no qualms about stripping down an original bike which was over 50 years old, in order to make a few quid. Presumably, he was well-placed to sell a few 'original' parts to the purchaser of the frame.

In my opinion, it is sad; when those seeking to help out or 'look after' a fellow cyclist/enthusiast, see the items that they sold at 'favourable' price, then sold on for a considerable profit. Sadder still, when it occurs within the confines of a cycling club.

Resultingly, I've no qualms about upgrading my old frames, with better, more modern and reliable components. Is 'originality' really so important ?

There are a few "proffesional / hobby traders" on this site and the other bike websites, it happens.

Although I think, an it's only an opinion, that it would be good if atb is Hilary Stone, he could possibly contribute to some of the enquiry type threads. Hilary obviously has a lot of knowledge and if he could follow the likes of Tel and Lazarus an contribute a little, it could only be a good thing for the site. Just an opinion tho..

Personaly I wouldn't buy anything else from Hilary Stone, I seem to get things delivered quicker from China and the USA, than from Mr Stone. An his reputation regarding refunds is rubbish.

And really to add insult to injury I think this is the Jubilee rear mech for sale seperately http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%20im ... -RD-19.jpg

Does smack heavily of blatant profiteering to me :x

kermitgreenkona88":ylqxtat0 said:

And really to add insult to injury I think this is the Jubilee rear mech for sale seperately http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%20im ... -RD-19.jpg

Does smack heavily of blatant profiteering to me :x

Click to expand...

To be fair to Hilary, he makes his living (I believe) from such deals. To some extent, all of those who sell frames/bikes to him (to sell on) will experience something similar - Hilary 'needs' that profit margin, to provide him with his living.

I do think though, that it is a shame to pull apart a totally original bike - but it is the buyer's right to do as they please with it - however unpalatable it may be.

As I've mentioned already, there are any number of 'dealer-members ' within the V-CC; they 'preach' the 'need' for originality, but will have no qualms in purchasing entire bikes so that they can sell off the components. To some, profit is more important than originality and the club is happy to turn a blind eye to such proceedings.

kermitgreenkona88":181sxebb said:

And really to add insult to injury I think this is the Jubilee rear mech for sale seperately http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%20im ... -RD-19.jpg

Does smack heavily of blatant profiteering to me :x

Click to expand...

While I don't agree with breaking up original bikes to sell the parts, I think any bike that is original should be kept that way for the sake of heritage, especially British built bikes.

But, I don't see Hilary Stone as blatant profiteering. One mans loss is another mans gain. He knows the market, his prices are often better than Ebay and he only sells quality, rare or unusual frames and components. In some ways, if people buy from him they are doing it for the love of classic bikes and will probably spend many hours returning and restoring them to there former glory, the best people to own and preserve them in the long term.

Many vintage bicycles are like pearls before swine. Every bicycle manufacturer and cycle shop needs to turn a profit, or is Hilary Stone supposed to do it all for free?

Well I'd rather buy from the original (or last) owner and not from a dealer who sticks their nose in the middle and who'll inflate the price.

What's the big deal with "restoration", which usually just means getting a respray and cleaning up. IMO it's not "returning them to their former glory".