Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:09 am

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:43 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:01 pm
Posts: 1339
Location: Birch, Essex, UK
OK...and Fiks has called better than most tbh!

I've seen a pic of this frame back in 2008 before it was resprayed.....it still had Alec Bird decals but with a different fork.

The 'current' 531 decal was put on when it was resprayed by Mario Vaz and could have been selected at random.....the frame has a 27.2mm seatpost and is much lighter than a Holdsworth road path frame i had recently....that was 531 plain gauge main tubes and chromoly stays....and was extremely heavy even allowing for the fact it was a tad bigger....or put it this way....when i sold the Holdsworth...i took it to London and collected the AB....and the AB was much easier to carry!

Here is the pic from 2008: http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 68#1441068

The forks in the 2008 were discarded when it was resprayed and supplied by Mario Vaz as suitable replacement forks and i think they are 531....[a] been told there was a glut of 531 tapered [butted] forks in the 1970s...plus a frame builder on here told me if the join with the drop outs is dome shaped the forks are 531...and they are dome shaped.....but doubt they were built by Alec Bird!

Not quite the story i was hoping for but as Marx said 'man makes his own history but not make it as they please!'

Someone on LFGSS has said it is definitely NOT a Carlton because of the shot in seat stays.

Contacted the owner in 2008...from this forum and will report back on what he says...assuming he is still a member and does get back to me.

Any other contributions.....positive or negative are most welcome....not trying to hide anything.

So i'm guessing the frame perhaps dates from the 1970s....now if the original owner of this frame is by chance reading this thread....please contact me....or if you know Alec Bird [and i believe he is still alive].....as either the first owner or AB could tell me what i whould like to know about the frame.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:43 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8223
Location: Cumbria
looking at the original thread from 2008, the first pic shows the frame in dark blue and it has sloping crown forks.

Track frames and sloping crown forks don't go together so I'd guess the dark blue frame / sloping crown forks has had a respray........

The current forks match the frame much better :)

Shaun


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:30 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:01 pm
Posts: 1339
Location: Birch, Essex, UK
Midlife wrote:
looking at the original thread from 2008, the first pic shows the frame in dark blue and it has sloping crown forks.

Track frames and sloping crown forks don't go together so I'd guess the dark blue frame / sloping crown forks has had a respray........

The current forks match the frame much better :)

Shaun


It would seem the sloping crown forks were not the original forks...where they are now or what happened to them..no idea....but at some time after 2008 and before 2010 it was resprayed [the person who did has told me so] to its present colour and was mated with the current fork...which i agree is a better match to the frame....so the forks could be AB in origin....but who knows...i doubt Mario Vaz knew....and likely got his brother to drill the forks.

So the history of this frame is clear as....mud!

Still would like to know when it was built?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:17 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8223
Location: Cumbria
I'd guess it was built in the 70's..... the fastback seat cluster was very fashionable.. just have a look at the riders who rode bikes by Jack Hearne, Shorter, Alec Bird etc......Adkins, Cottington, Engers.

Shaun


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:44 am 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:22 pm
Posts: 1481
I've got round track forks on my Bob Jackson and I've never noticed them deflect. No brake judder either and I've never bothered tapering the blocks or anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alec Bird
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:44 am 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 2448
Location: Plymouth, UK
half cog wrote:
Hi.
You sure thats an Alec Bird only its got Carlton Capella lugs. It may well be but I thought those lugs where Carltons own.If someone knows different then please say as they may well be used by other companies and that is something I was not aware of
Regards
Peter


Spotted the Capella lug immediately, was my thinking too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alec Bird
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:26 am 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:01 pm
Posts: 1339
Location: Birch, Essex, UK
Spokesmann wrote:
half cog wrote:
Hi.
You sure thats an Alec Bird only its got Carlton Capella lugs. It may well be but I thought those lugs where Carltons own.If someone knows different then please say as they may well be used by other companies and that is something I was not aware of
Regards
Peter


Spotted the Capella lug immediately, was my thinking too.


But remember the Capella lugs stopped being used by Carlton in 1966 and Carlton closed in 1981....even Dave Marsh [who worked at Carlton] concedes it is very possible the lugs were sold at some point as they still are today on ebay.......so the the fact the frame has Capella lugs is not proof that the frame is a Carlton plus the fast back stays on the frame where not found on Carltons.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:14 am 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 2448
Location: Plymouth, UK
Fastback stays or 'Victor seat cluster' as I believe it was referred to was used a few high Raleighs sold in the US - frames made by Carlton.

Agree about the Capella lugs. A set keep appearing on ebay now...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:36 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:01 pm
Posts: 1339
Location: Birch, Essex, UK
Spokesmann wrote:
Fastback stays or 'Victor seat cluster' as I believe it was referred to was used a few high Raleighs sold in the US - frames made by Carlton.

Agree about the Capella lugs. A set keep appearing on ebay now...


Thats interesting......as when i spoke to Dave Marsh last Friday...he mentioned the possibility of it being a Raleigh....i once had a Raleigh Team replica with similar stays but sans Capella lugs.

What about the frame number 529....unlike any Raleigh frame number i have come across.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:12 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8223
Location: Cumbria
Victor seat cluster was a Shot in design and not a fastback, that's how I read it.

http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/mybikes/66giro.htm

The fastback frame with horizontal dropouts is a bit of a mix for the OP's frame as track frames usually had widely spaced seat stays at the seat cluster for maximum strength........ all in all an unusual mix of features.

Shaun

having typed the above found a track frame on Hilary Stone with fastback..typical LOL

http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%20im ... s-2000.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Spokesmann and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group