'50s Period Wheels - What concessions to make? (if any!)

Hopefully nearing building some wheels for my '59 Rotrax Concours, Road / Track.

I want to keep this as period correct as possible but hope to regularly ride it - on sunny days at least! - so wondering what concessions I should make, if any, regarding rim and spoke choice. The hubs will definitely be Large Flange Airlite, double fixed. It's spoke and rim choice I'm deliberating. I have some 32/40h Dunlop Special Lightweight Stainless (Clincher) rims but have some reticence about using steel rims.

- How will steel rims ride for everyday use? (I know braking may be problematic in the wet!)
- Also would '59 be a bit late for these? Had rims moved away from steel?
- And should I really be going for sprints with tubs?

The other choice I have is going in the other direction, and using some totally incorrect Mavic MA2s I have. Maybe these would be sufficiently nicer to ride to make the non-period concession worthwhile?

Otherwise, it's waiting around to try to get some period alloy rims.

Lastly, do people still use 15/17 gauge spokes. Any inherrant problems using these? I have one source I think, no idea of quality though. The other choice is using something like the thin Sapim Laser spokes, would these look horrendous or be a decent choice. I read the period wheel article on Classic Lightweights that states using incorrect thickness of spokes renders your wheels looking like a 'moped'. I'm pretty lightweight so the one thing that isn't too much of a concern is strength.

I'll just have to make up my own mind in the end, but all advice appreciated.

Many thanks, Daniel.

Spoke gauge would depend on the hole diameter of the hubs. If theyre drilled for 14G, then I would use these, as too large a hole will allow movement and eventually premature breakage.

I would compromise on the MA2's. sprints & tubs are a faff unless youre planning on short rides. A tub replaced on the road has problems like too little./too much glue, only one spare, fellow cyclists cant help you etc. And a mended tub is never the same again.

I had these built up a while ago. Airlites on nos 32/40 alloy 27" Weinmann rims, laced up with DT Revolution spokes (which SJS cycles call 14/17g). Haven't had any problems. The old sales material for Holdsworth talked about them (road / path type bikes) being designed for both 27" & sprints. I guess depending if you was cycling to work or competing on the weekend!?

I believe a chap on LFGSS still may have some of these rims available?

pigman":37f8kuy9 said:

Spoke gauge would depend on the hole diameter of the hubs. If theyre drilled for 14G, then I would use these, as too large a hole will allow movement and eventually premature breakage.

I would compromise on the MA2's. sprints & tubs are a faff unless youre planning on short rides. A tub replaced on the road has problems like too little./too much glue, only one spare, fellow cyclists cant help you etc. And a mended tub is never the same again.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Pigman. Yes pretty much decided against tubs, but thought I'd give them mention in the post.

The hubs are '50s so I was thinking built for 15g. And more the opposite - that I might have problems with wider spokes passing through the spoke holes. Sure I'd heard mention of some old hubs having tight spoke holes when reading up on Retrobike previously. The early Gran Sport ones perhaps?

Some Guy":20f35uek said:

I had these built up a while ago. Airlites on nos 32/40 alloy 27" Weinmann rims, laced up with DT Revolution spokes (which SJS cycles call 14/17g). Haven't had any problems. The old sales material for Holdsworth talked about them (road / path type bikes) being designed for both 27" & sprints. I guess depending if you was cycling to work or competing on the weekend!?

I believe a chap on LFGSS still may have some of these rims available?

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply too. Think I remember your build on a different forum when you were building up those Airlites?

Yes, had thought about Weinmann rims if going alloy, seem to come up more often. I think Vintage Bike Cave had some. Maybe the same chap as you mean on LFGSS as he's from there I think.

Still wondering about how steel rims will ride. Any opinions?

I've emailed the shop that sells 15/17g spokes to see if I can get a sample one to look at. Right now thinking the Stainless Dunlop Lightweight rims and building up a 'correct' set of wheels. Too curious not too. And then when able I have other hubs I could build on to the MA2s.

I know it will add to the expense, but did you consider
having a 'rider' set of wheels as well as a 'showing off' set?

That is what I will probably do for my early 60's project:
I have a nice set of high flange hubs with old alloy tubular
rims, but also a set of wheels with normal tyres that look
ok but aren't really period correct.

Johnny

The chap on LFGSS was Bonk (if I remember correctly), don't think he's associated with VBC?

Although with your 27" Dunlop rims built up with 15/17g spokes, I'd be too curious not too also! Especialy with a pair of sprints on hangers

VBC did have a pair of wood sprints for £80/90, looked like they could need some work though?

The airlites would have been drilled for 15g, although the problem with the bend of the spoke being pulled straight then breaking was more on hub flanges that were thin steel, as on most cheap bikes of the time.
Always had a problem with stainless rims in the wet, but surely brake blocks are better now.
Both the SS dunlops and Weinmann Alesa rims had spoke holes angled as well as staggered. And Campagnolo GS had very tight spoke holes, not possible to lace up in 3 minutes, unlike hubs made for mass production where the spokes would just drop through the holes.
Spokes have rolled threads, which are larger diameter than the stated wire guage.
Keith (79 soon)

I don't think I saw anyone comment on using steel rims every day. I've got Rigida Superchromix on one of mine. They are fine, nice and smooth to ride with 36 spokes front and back. I think they look great because they are so bright. Like you say, in the wet, the braking isn't great and it's a good idea to pull the brake every now and then to clear the water. Doesn't seem to matter if you use rubber, leather or fibre brake blocks either!

Thanks for all the replies. Appreciated. And helped me make up my mind...

I'm definitely going to go the full period correct route with the Airlites, Dunlop rims, 15/17g spokes. As I said too curious not too. I've also (foolishly!) acquired a third project, also a road / track frame. So Johnsqual, your advice of a 'rider' and a 'showing off' set will definitely be the long-term aim! And I can swap the sets between the bikes. Will post some pics of the wheels when done.