This is one for Old Ned
You mentioned you rode Sun Racing bikes during the 60's and I wonder what you thought of them, were the competition machines good bikes to ride or were Sun behind the competition by that stage.
Also would you know if the competition bikes were actually made in house or was it something that was sent out to specialist companies to do? Would any of the bikes actually marketed by Sun to the public at the time been considered serious bikes. Carlton produced frame sets for sale to competition riders and also their marketing materials of the time makes several references to major events and world records being won by riders on Carlton Bikes so I wonder how seriously were they viewed in competition circles of the time, either domestically or on the world stage?
I also noticed a lot of riders swopped around between teams especially Raleigh, Carlton and Sun so was the entire thing basically one?
I didn't say I rode Sun racing bikes, I said I rode the one in the photo of Dave Dungworth I've linked to. (Well, as far as I know it was that one.) Dave was riding the criterium on Weston-super-Mare promenade and I cheekily asked him if I could 'have a go' and he let me do a couple of laps during the warm-up period. This was the Saturday evening. Sunday morning was the Weston-Bristol-Weston time trial which the Pros rode and I think the photo of Dave is taken during that event.
I would think that the Sun team frames would be exactly the same as the Carlton (or Raleigh) ones, generally built I presume, in the Carlton factory. (Although see also my recent thread - see link below - about links between various manufacturers). I don't think the Sun brand was ever (during the Raleigh days) seen as a 'serious' competition brand. The Sun pro teams were there to publicise Sun to the great unwashed rather than to the 'cogniscenti' of the club world. There are several RB members far more able to comment on this than me!
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... highlight=
However, Carlton (and later Raleigh) was a serious race brand and many top amateur riders rode them to success in all facets of the sport.
Whether there was any 'collusion' between the Raleigh brand teams during races I've no idea. Knowing some of the personalities involved I doubt it as they were riding to make money - mainly for themselves, the very reason for being a professional.
Today is the yesterday of tomorrow.