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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:33 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8221
Location: New Forest, UK
Sounds like a good plan. Depending on where they put the canti studs (if they were 27" wheels), you may or may not get away with it.

Whatever, building it up and deciding what you like and what needs to change is a sound plan. You only want to have a trip to the frame builder and repaint once. However you can easily get close to the same cost as a new frame.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:11 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:51 am
Posts: 254
Right, this frame is giving me grief :?

started to strip the old components off it last night. There was still an old mudguard attached to the back, however it is bolted to the bottom bridge (where normally there is a clip), and the bolt has rusted, can't get a spanner in there easily, so I'm hoping I'll get it off with a junior hacksaw, but I hate the idea of having a hacksaw anywhere near the bike!

Then the cranks, can't get them off. They are square taper but instead of a female thread they are male, with a nut and washer holding the cranks on. I removed the nuts no problem, however because they are male my crank extractor will not thread into the cranks because the inner part of the extractor even when unwound fully is still flush with the start of the threads that screw into the crank, so the male thread of the bb is stopping me screwing the extractor into the crank, presumably I need a larger extractor that allows the center part to be wound further back into the extractor to allow a proper fit? Does anyone know of a particular model I can get off the web?

I tried to get them off without the tool but they are on solid, I tried swearing at it and even gave it a slight, ahem, tap with a hammer, no joy. I'm not overly bothered about keeping the cranks and the bb is shot anyway, are these easy to hacksaw off? If I could cut off the non drive side of the bb spindle, could then undo the bb and seperate it?

I am wondering if I should cut my losses with this frame. There is rust around the bottom bridge that is worse than I first thought, although I've had a dig at it with a screwdriver and the metal seems to be solid underneath. Last time I did a galaxy up I got some advice about the sound a frame should make when tapped. when i tap another frame I have, a 531 Raleigh, I get a bright ping noise from all the tubes. On this one it sounds deader, and the back stays are completely dull, is this because the bb and cranks are still on it? Or a sign that the insides are bad? I don't mind persevering with it but wondered if experience tells you guys that it might be worth giving up on this one???


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:36 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8221
Location: New Forest, UK
I'd try your LBS for the crank extractor - those style of BBs went around 1990.

If you have an auto bearing puller, that might get the crank off. I have resorted to cutting cranks off in the past, and it is not easy to do without some damage to the frame. Dremeling the end of the crank (the opposite side to the arm) worked. Several doses of Plus-Gas are also a good idea.

However, my advice is to get a bike shop to do it.

The Galaxy is a solid touring bike, so the tubes don't have the same light ping of racier machines...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:21 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:50 pm
Posts: 58
Are you sure your crank extractor doesn't unscrew any further? The reason I ask is that I recently came across a similar bottom bracket (on a lovely 1984 Raleigh Classic 15) and had the same problem. I couldn't find any references on the net to a different type of extractor, so I gave mine a squirt fo WD40 and a bit of welly and - lo and behold - it unscrewed further and I was in business. I guess that years of only being screwed and unscrewed a certain amount had jammed it up a bit.

On the issue of cold setting, as others have said it's no big deal to do it. But if you can live with 130mm hubs, you'll probably find there's enough spring in 126mm spaced dropouts to accomodate them without actually cold setting the frame. This is what I did on the Raleigh Classic mentioned above, which now sports 24 instead of 15 gears, using Tiagra hubs.

Just my 2p worth :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:34 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:51 am
Posts: 254
hamster wrote:
I'd try your LBS for the crank extractor - those style of BBs went around 1990.

If you have an auto bearing puller, that might get the crank off. I have resorted to cutting cranks off in the past, and it is not easy to do without some damage to the frame. Dremeling the end of the crank (the opposite side to the arm) worked. Several doses of Plus-Gas are also a good idea.

However, my advice is to get a bike shop to do it.

The Galaxy is a solid touring bike, so the tubes don't have the same light ping of racier machines...


Yes I'm visiting an lbs onfriday so could ask them, so long as doesn't cost more than buying the right tool :)

OK, when I get the bb off I'll have more idea what the innards are like rust wise, I imagine bikes worse than this have been brought back to life, will just spend as little as poss in the meantime.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:39 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:51 am
Posts: 254
spark303 wrote:
Are you sure your crank extractor doesn't unscrew any further? The reason I ask is that I recently came across a similar bottom bracket (on a lovely 1984 Raleigh Classic 15) and had the same problem. I couldn't find any references on the net to a different type of extractor, so I gave mine a squirt fo WD40 and a bit of welly and - lo and behold - it unscrewed further and I was in business. I guess that years of only being screwed and unscrewed a certain amount had jammed it up a bit.

On the issue of cold setting, as others have said it's no big deal to do it. But if you can live with 130mm hubs, you'll probably find there's enough spring in 126mm spaced dropouts to accomodate them without actually cold setting the frame. This is what I did on the Raleigh Classic mentioned above, which now sports 24 instead of 15 gears, using Tiagra hubs.

Just my 2p worth :D


Thats worth a try, will take another look before going to the lbs.

I think I could live with 130mm, looking around the web it does seem that most are happy just springing them out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:53 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:51 am
Posts: 254
Got another crank extractor - this one is a two piece affair, the center bolt comes all the way out, the outer ring is much deeper - best of all only 6.99 from my new favourite LBS.

So the cranks are now off.

I finally got the bb out aswell (see other thread :) ), the frame now dings like a bell, so I'm hoping that means the condition isn't too bad.

However, the bridge between the chain stays seems to be the worst affected by rust. I've attached a couple of pics, if anybody could advise what they think of the condition of it, be much appreciated.

(pics to follow)


Attachments:
dawes top tube 5.jpg
dawes top tube 5.jpg [ 82.56 KiB | Viewed 204 times ]
dawes chain stay bridge.jpg
dawes chain stay bridge.jpg [ 83.08 KiB | Viewed 204 times ]
dawes bb shell.jpg
dawes bb shell.jpg [ 87.5 KiB | Viewed 204 times ]
dawes bb from below.jpg
dawes bb from below.jpg [ 120.15 KiB | Viewed 204 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:11 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:51 am
Posts: 254
more pics


Attachments:
dawes downtube.jpg
dawes downtube.jpg [ 87.14 KiB | Viewed 202 times ]
dawes frame.jpg
dawes frame.jpg [ 80.15 KiB | Viewed 202 times ]
dawes seat tubes.jpg
dawes seat tubes.jpg [ 100.4 KiB | Viewed 202 times ]
dawes bb from above.jpg
dawes bb from above.jpg [ 111.03 KiB | Viewed 202 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:40 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8221
Location: New Forest, UK
Most of that rust looks worse than it is. I'm seeing nice a cast BB shell, the threads will be fine after running a BB tap through them before building up.

The bridge does not look so clever. If I'm not mistaken there is a bit more rusting around the hole, which may spell trouble.

Frankly nothing looks terminal so far. I'd check the frame carefully after blasting for holes. Frames rust from the inside out generally.


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