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 Post subject: Geoffrey Bulter.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:49 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Hi bro,

given my previous remark, GB did not make frames: they bought from the trade and applied their own transfers - like many shops. Yours looks to me (without detailed images) like a Holdsworth - Holdsworth supplied many shops like GBs with"unbranded"frames.
Your GB also has the"art deco"typeface which was what GB used when I was going into the shop at once a week throughout the 1970s - I believe this lettering was used from the very late 1960s until the (either) late 1970s or early 1980s. Russell Williams rode pro for Ever Ready/Halfords and Geoffrey Butler in the first half of the 1990s. Russell is a south London boy and rode GBs before turning pro in the late 1980s.
Dating a frame from components is unwise as many riders BITD would transfer components from their old frame onto a new one.
Let's see some detailed images - at we might stand a chance of identifying the frame.
Interesting to see a Merseyside guy interested in a Surrey shop...thought you might want to ride a Quinn or a Clifton!?

Roadking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:37 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
Lazarus, If you look at the valve hole you should see the wood insert, Weinmannn was about 1/4 inch square right around the rim, Scheeren had seperate laminated blocks. Should be a sleeved join. A solid rim would be far too heavy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:48 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
Hi again RK :-) You helped me out no end re: the 753 GB buddy, so your input is respected my friend :-)

Had a good think last night about "everything" and let all the images in my mind fall into place. This frame has a horseshoe bracket/guide for the centre pulls high up on the rear stays, but still has the standard placed brake stay for the actual brake calipers.

What sticks in my mind is the "cable guides on the top tube". I agree whole heartedly with you here buddy that this is 70's standards. Never seen or heard of a 50's 60's frame with brase ons for the brake cables, always been cable clips ?

Love what you are saying re: the lettering style.

My suspicion from the outset was "old parts rebuilt onto a newer frame" but I guess I let my enthusiasm get the better of me on frame age.

As for a scouser being interested in a Surrey frame builder, "well my friend I LOVE quality" :-) My main interest is Italian frames from the 80's, but English quality abounds also, and thought it was high time I got my hands dirty so to speak.

Frame builders went through an amazing phase in the late 70's with the intro of 753, and this pushed the Columbus tubing to new heights to compete. For my mind the very best of ALL frames came from the 80's. By then a global understanding had been established as to what constituted a "well built aero-dynamic strong but light frame." It just all came together perfectly ....... but then Raleigh ruined everything with bloody grifters ..... which became mtb ..... then hybrids and now fixie.

There are so many excellent frames from the 80's from overall dynamics to wierd profiled tubing. If I had a house and pockets big enough I'd seriously own at least 200 bikes, and love everyone of them :-)

Have settled for a 1983 Faggin owned from new, Paganini 1984, Turbo Mecacycle, the 753 GB you know of, 1982 Bonavia, Womans 1986 NOS Faggin, all campy fitted. Still regret not buying an Olagnero recently with a strange box style tubing in the rear stays & chain area and OS tubing.

As you can see buddy, just love Quality Cycles, especially ones I can save from the scrap heap. Will post more pics when I pick her up on Saturday. Take care RK, yours Laz.

Hi again Keith :-) I'll know more buddy when I actually get her in my hands, but thanks again for the info :-) Appreciated. Laz


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:07 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
On another note RK, " Walvale cycles made some seriously good quality frames and where 753 approved before the Quinn brothers where " They where just a few miles up the road from Harry Quinns on County Road, and RJ's was In Edge Hill. Keith Coppel of Maghull also put together some very well built bikes, but I'm unsure of wether he had a frame builder in house.

Many many Quinn frames where just run of the mill and some where complete crap, but from time to time, like ALL frame builders, someone would be able to afford & commission a "Beauty". Many folk forget how expensive £600 - £1000 was back in the 70's and 80's. I admired a Super Record groupset that sat in Harrys window for at least 5 years (used to wait for the bus to school everday right outside his shop).

Unlike Colnago, most frame builders simply went with the times, and built whatever the customer wanted just to make ends meet, often compromising the very thing that made them famous .... TOP QUALITY :-) Not really seen a Quinn yet that floats my boat enough to want it.

Love talking to you RK (anyone). Just love bikes, and don't know anywhere near enough about bikes to satisfy my sponge like brain, so came here to "listen" :-) I do know a lot about riding a 1980's Campagnolo throughout fitted Faggin though. I can testify that my super record hubs have NEVER been oiled,greased,fixed, tweaked had anything done to them except ridden for 28years now and still going strong, true, and absolutely smooth.

Later RK, yours Laz.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:24 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
Laz, I was a lightweight cycle retailer up til 1967. To give you an idea of how small the market was, as a one man business, I had the largest retail accounts in the whole of the South of England with the 2 main importers of the time, The Holdsworthy Company and Ron Kitching. I had rare direct accounts with Brooks and Bluemels, and was buying spokes 100 gross + at a time, most rims in crate lots (25 pairs) but still one man only.
Our last new bikes (1980) are 2 Mosers Columbus SL specially made with Handlebar controls, full titanium group set, Mavic SSC, alloy Everest block, and the 2 cost £1000.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:29 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
Hi again Keith :-) "Baled out in 67 my friend" The best was yet to follow, do you not think ?

531 was everything for 30+ years, then 753 hit town and it was the new must have kid on the block. I remember asking at Walvale cycles about the cost of just a 753 frame and was quoted £400+ and that was in 1979. Kitted with Campagnolo Super Record throughout it was a cool GRAND / £1000.

In 1981 I left Britain for 6 years and was in Hamburg (which is where I picked up my Faggin .... after my Favorit was stolen). I bought it from the Von Hacht brothers after they advised it over a Colnago Oval (I know Keith, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, been after an affordable 1 ever since). They are still in business now (a large one too .... google them)

Had my trusty Faggin with me ever since then. Clocked up some serious miles too in all these years, and thats just being used for short 10mile runs almost everyday for 28years. Still going strong & unlike myself, looking very good for her age :-)

Buying NOS old stock now is by and large cheaper than 30 years ago. As a retailer Keith you got things at cost, I was a consumer and had to pay the going rates. Every penny I ever spent on a bike was well worth it and some. I want to meet someone on here in 30 years, and listen to their tales of how their beautiful Carbon Fibre crap has lasted that long whilst still being ridden and not locked away.

Won't go into the longevity of the 50's frames against CFC's but suffice to say "Old Hand Built Frames are always going to be Beautiful", Humans built them, not robots.

Really looking forward to collecting this GB on saturday, just love the feeling of the great unknown with old battered bikes. Bought 1 last year from Barrow in Furness for £20 on a hunch & a whim. When I collected it I thought "sh*t what a waste of time", but on the way home after much looking and scraping crap off it, I got excited.

Turned out that the crankset was a mint Tevano, complete with Tevano rings and bolts. The hubs where campag SR F&R on GP4's. Crested Cinelli Pista handlebars with a late 60's Cinelli stem. Frame was a god awful 501 aerospace with a ripped seattube (front mech hangar had been ripped off)

The parts where stunning after a good clean :-) Love the Tevano, especially its history, and it is a VERY strong alloy mixture used to make them, no where near as soft as a campag SR. Came with Miche pedals also. All in all Keith a journey well made :-)

You take care buddy & its nice talking to someone, yours Laz.


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