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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:15 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:57 am
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Location: Devon
So anyone know if it will work
I've got a 10 speed STI lever that I'm itching to fit, so it would mean a 10 speed cassette and chain which I'd have to source, but what about either of my current rear mechs, the first, I believe, Ultegra variant known as tricolour 8 speed and a Dura Ace 8 speed mech.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:32 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:10 am
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Location: Bristol
Absolutely not.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:56 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
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Location: Sheffield, top city
i reckon it'll all fit together and index ok, but the "throw" might not be enough, ie it might not span far enough laterally across all 10 cogs. suck and see.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:04 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:57 am
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Location: Devon
thinking about it, I reckon it'll work coz I have the Ultegra one working on a 130 spaced hub with an 8 speed cassette so assuming the largest cog is in the same position whether it's 8, 9 or 10 speed, and I have to screw the mech in so the chain doesn't fall between the smallest cog and frame. so the travel on the mech is probably enough.
just thought, I've got a mate with a modern 10 speed bike, so will borrow his wheel before parting with any of the folding stuff
cheers


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:13 am 
retrobike rider
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Crash course...

7+8 work together because although different spacings the difference is nominal.
9 is totally different to both 7+8 and to 10.

8 speed Dura Ace is the anti-christ of retro indexing. The mech, hub, cassette and shifter were designed only to work with each other and not with the rest of the range ( Ultegra and 105 ) hence many folks ( like me ) look for old Ultegra ( 600 ) STIs and bar-end shifters.
Mk II 9 speed and Mk II 10 speed Dura Ace hubs are retro compatible; both Mk Is had freewheel splines designed specifically NOT to take cassettes made for hubs produced before them.

....and we wonder why Campag and fixies are so popular. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:06 am 
retrobike rider
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Location: Devon
Thanks, I know all to well of the Dura Ace problems, as have a a 7 speed unilglide hub that would live forever if you could get a cheap supply of cassettes.

I've had success with the alternative cable routing technique for the DA 8 speed, but think the ultegra rear mech should work ok,


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:13 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:42 pm
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Location: Brighton
Hmm.

I think it depends on the pull ratio - if it's remained the same it will work. Not sure a 10s chain will fit the jockeys properly though.

My commute bike has got a Dura Ace 8 speed mech working with Sora brifters and an Ultegra cassette. Works perfectly. I think I used the alternate cable routing though (twiddle the cable clamp round so it's held at the front, not the back) which makes the pull ratio the same.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:36 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2094
Location: Sheffield, top city
Agency_Scum wrote:
....and we wonder why Campag and fixies are so popular. :lol:
on the contrary, I reckon in terms of compatibility, campag is the worst. Modern campag mechs dont index with 7/8 campag. 8 speed stuff is obsolete and uses a different spline arrangement. There are 2 9 speed versions with different pull ratios, 10 stands alone and now theres an 11.
With shimano, (dura ace8 and uniglide excepted) each cassette system has the same spline arrangement and all the rear mechs have the same pull ratio and cassettes from 8 speed upwards are available to buy new.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:24 am 
retrobike rider
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@pigman,
please teach me about Campy compatibility. It always confused the living daylights out of me!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:14 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:05 pm
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The 8 speed tricolor should work no problems (the dura ace would require alternate calbe routing and would likely be a bit off even then). Firstly, it should have enough travel to cover the highest to lowest cog.

Secondly, as the derailleur isnt where the indexing is (thats done by the shifters) then as long as the actuation ratio (the amount of cable pulled) of the derailleur is correct then it should work just fine. With the exception of 8 speed and earlier Dura Ace all Shimano indexing derailleurs have a ratio of 1.7 (well 1.67 apparently).

For example: Shimano 8 speed derailleur, shifter and cassette. The 8 speed shifter pulls approx 2.8mm per click. Multplied by the derailleur actuation ratio of 1.7 gives 4.8mm -which is the spacing for shimano 8 speed cassettes.

Now, for 10 speed - the shimano shifters pull approx 2.3mm per click. Again, multiply this by the actuation ratio of the derailleur (the amount the derailleur will move) and we get 3.91 and the cassette spacing for 10 speed shimano is 3.95.

So, basically as long as the derailleur has enough travel (which it should - im currently using a 6 speed on my 8 speed setup - works fine! :)) and the actuation ratio is the same (which unless its dura ace 8 speed or earlier it will) then you should be good to go!

Or as i prefer, try it and see! :)


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