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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:38 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 10
Hi All,

I'm trying to unravel the mystery maker of a frame that I have recently aquired.

Although the decals are Ellis Briggs a very nice chap at the EB informed me that as the frame number has no four digit serial number on the bb it was'nt actually an EB built frame.

It was more likely to be a respray by them (probably early 1950) where the original decals could not be obtained so they added their own.

The Serial is the 5 digit number vertically stamped on the lower head lug: 702 45 (the last two digits are at a different angle to the first three so my thought is that they could be a suffix 1945 perhaps?)

on the bb there is a raised casting mark possibly D83 or BS3 (bsa?) and a stamped number 5

The lugs are nothing fancy and look to me as though they might be 1940s rather than 50s but cannot find and Marque that stamped serials in this location.

No forks with the frame just an early Bramton headset and roadster forks that were completely wrong.

Any help or hints would be really appreciated as this one is baking my noodle

Many thanks

Sam Stevens
London, UK[/u][url][/url]


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:32 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
Sam, can we assume the brazed on cable eyes are later?
Is that a chain hanger I can see about 6 inches up the RH seat stay?
Is it standard bottom bracket threading?

If the original rear fork ends were not a pair they were certainly cut off to allow 27" wheel access.

Any chance of close up of bottom bracket shell, BSA made cast and pressed lug sets. Also close up of seat cluster.

Very odd placing for the frame number.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:40 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:50 pm
Posts: 444
Location: Sheffield
I have had an Ellis Briggs with a five digit serial number in the same place as yours. That was in it's original 30's paint. I've also seen a ladies E.B the same.

I think on pre war frames the numbers were different. So it could very well be a Ellis Briggs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:46 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:50 pm
Posts: 444
Location: Sheffield
Here's the transfer.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:26 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 10
Bottom bracket after I stripped some paint to get a better idea of the casting mark and stamp:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:27 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 10
Seat cluster:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:32 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 10
oops sorry here it is:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:33 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 10
bb


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:35 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 10
Hi,

Thanks for the help so far. I was giving up hope on it being an EB and of ever finding info on it.

Thanks desmondo for the pic. a lovely bike. Found the other pics on flickr which will help no one i matching a set of forks. Any chance of a picture of the serial so that I can make an A>B with mine? Would be grateful.

Keith: Realise now I could have been a bit more thorough in my description so here is a bit more on the frame.

There is indeed a chain hanger about 3 1/2 inches up the rear seat stay.
Also the cable guide on the bb is a double, a small brass wheel with two cable grooves.

other side of the bb has a grease hole with screw cap

distance from rear s-stay bridge to end of s-stay is 14"

Drop out width is 120mm

The hangers look as they dont match as mudguard stay locator is in a different place on each. There is also a v. small threaded hole drilled into the bottom of the chain side hanger (would love to know what this is for?).

bb is standard size.

cable eyes and pump pegs on top tube. Also a cable eye on chain stay.

If this is a prewar/40s frame I would guess as you say that the brazed fittings such as the cable guides and chain hanger would have been brazed on at the same time as the early 1950s EB respray.

Weight is 2.5 kg or roughly 5 lbs

All pics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62789481@N05/

cheers guys


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:37 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 10
*help no end (not no one I) :/


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