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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:15 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Photos always help.

The frame has Geoffrey Butler"stickers"on it - Geoffrey Butler Cycles in Croydon (I walked past their shop every day on my way to school) did not build frames, they bought frames from the trade (e.g from Holdsworth) and put their own transfers on them.

Difficult to identify GB frames - although I was lucky with mine as it has features that identify the builder as Cliff Shrubb.

However, from your description yours could be a Raleigh, but possibly not 753.

Not unknown for people to"ring"bicycle frames - "caveat emptor".

Roadking.


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:44 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
EDIT: This is the original post I made.

Hi everyone "Could really do with some help re: authenticating a supposed 753r frame and 753r forks."

I bought a frame a few months back that was supposedly 753r. It was badged up as such, but the forks got me wondering when it arrived.

They where re-sprayed and peeling because there was no undercoat ? I cleaned all the paint off and the brasing colour is yellow (brass).

Main question is "Is silver brasing also yellow, but with a very high content of silver OR is it as I suspect white/silver in colour ?" I have never seen 753 brasing, so sorry if this is a no brainer

This frame has a Cinelli aero BB shell and columbus dropouts ? The lugs appear to be Raleigh (long & pointy). Sloping crown on the forks. NO maker marks at all, anywhere,not even on the fork tube. The seller didn't like being questioned about any of this, eventhough he professed to be a 753 rider and owner of many 753's. (always thought 753's where stamped & catalogued because of the expertise involved in the making ?)

(swore he knew his stuff & I'm no-one to question his integrity)

It appears to have the original GB sticker on the headtube, but the rest of the stickers are cheap tat, slap ons. (black plastic Geoffrey Butler name cutouts) The 753r sticker are external stick on's, not water labels. Any pointers please would be greatly appreciated

Its a lovely frame, extremely light, but I can't move on with it until I know if it is definately 753r OR not / other. Just an old stuck in the mud who dislikes wrongly badged frames. The onus is on me to get it correctly identified before re-spray & badged back up.

Thank you, yours Laz (new here)

EDIT END


Thanks Roadking :-) "I hope I haven't appeared lazy at my own attempts to identify in my first post ?" :-)

Wasn't sure if I was allowed to make image posts before 5 posts, so opted for a description. You sound like the kind of person who would know instinctively wether it was a 753r GB or not.

I am far more familiar with Italian frames, Columbus tubing, and how a bike feels to ride. This frame really is a beauty in every way, just unidentifiable :-(

I deeply suspect that the bike has had a front ender and lost the forks, hence the new ones being 531 on a 753 frame. NO damage anywhere in anyway on the frame to indicate this, just a hunch. The forks are heavier than the frame, or close to it.

The aero BB shell & columbus dropouts just don't sound like a British build for 753, but I know so little about company histories. I am hoping those of you in here that have 753's can confirm that an unstamped / uncatalogued 753 is very unlikely.

Really appreciate your help:-) Perhaps I should try and get images online via flicker/other. Take care buddy, yours Laz.


Last edited by Lazarus on Sun May 22, 2011 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Frame ID.
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:50 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
The Cinelli"spoiler"BB is not unusual on British builds - I've got one on my 531 Pro frameset.

531 Pro is very similiar weight wise to 753 - that's not using scales obviously - in case any pedant wants to criticise that comment!

Roadking.


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:25 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
Thanks for that pointer RK :-) " I can work on that info buddy" Opens a new avenue of thought.

Was always of the opinion that 753 made good in the late 70's and sort of drifted out of fashion because the Columbus tubes where easy to work with & where cheaper.

Take care RK, yours Laz


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:56 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:54 pm
Posts: 165
you will be able to tell the forks are 753 from the rake and also the steering column colour and gauge


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:01 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
Thanks for that tip Andy, very interesting walkthrough of frame building too :-)

Hope you don't mind "but I wouldn't know exactly what I'm looking for re: rake & colour, so have posted a few pics. Perhaps yourself / someone in here can guide me slightly further ? :-)

Take care buddy, yours Laz


Attachments:
Butler.jpg
Butler.jpg [ 246.01 KiB | Viewed 776 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:05 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
This is the GB sticker and a poor view of the crown.


Attachments:
Butler1.jpg
Butler1.jpg [ 185.63 KiB | Viewed 774 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:06 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
The all important seat tube cluster & 753r badge/sticker


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:08 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Liverpool
BB area with Tevano crankset


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:31 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:54 pm
Posts: 165
Lazarus wrote:
Thanks for that tip Andy, very interesting walkthrough of frame building too :-)

Hope you don't mind "but I wouldn't know exactly what I'm looking for re: rake & colour, so have posted a few pics. Perhaps yourself / someone in here can guide me slightly further ? :-)

Take care buddy, yours Laz

753 forks blades have a very distinctive curve as they were supplied pre bent by the factory.They dont look like 735 to me,check the seat pin size for the frame it will be 26.8mm or 27mm
The tube ends will also be a give away,anything non 753 will probably have factory domed ends


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