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 Post subject: The Horror of PayPal!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:06 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:09 pm
Posts: 221
Location: northampton
Just been kippered up by ebay & PayPal - and I'm livid!

I sold a bike to a guy in Australia, unbeknown to me (because I was away on holiday and didn't look at my ebay or paypal accounts), he puts in a (somewhat unjust and exagerated) dispute over the bikes description/condition, paypal find in his favour and low - the full value of the bike goes back to him - and I don't have the bike back. Just great.
I speak to the muppets at paypal and they want nothing to do with it - instead threaten me with passing my account to a collection agency because of my negative balance!

Just great :x


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:59 pm 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 2449
Location: Plymouth, UK
This is not un-common. The problem is it seems that the odds are stacked in favour of buyers who complain, this has happened to a number of friends who as sellers use PayPal. Problem is that the ebay/PayPal tie up creates an undue amount of pressure on sellers to use the service. Ebay was once a good free(ish) and easy way of selling, sadly corporate profit and greed has taken over.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:45 am 
Concours Judge
Concours Judge
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:59 pm
Posts: 8171
Location: a proper EU country
Okay

He should return you the bike than

What if he doesn't? Will PP refund you the money than?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:56 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:09 pm
Posts: 221
Location: northampton
No.
Paypal have now said that the dispute is resolved. I spoke with the clueless muppets there and they've now basically washed their hands of it. Acording to them, my evidence submitted where we agreed through ebay messages a smaller refund amount does not count as suitable evidence! Really pi55ed of at their attitude to this and not seing any reasoning - especially given the tie-up between paypal and ebay.
The 'buyer' is (unsurprisingly) not responding to any emails, my only course of action is legal against him to recover the bike/value.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:26 pm 
Concours Judge
Concours Judge
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:59 pm
Posts: 8171
Location: a proper EU country
He got his money back and now he should return the bike.

Unless you agree on that the bike is not worth shipping back. In that case it could be sold and revenue is for you.

I can't think of another reasonable solution.

Of course I do understand it is not attractive to take them to court for a couple 100s costing bike :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:53 am 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:44 pm
Posts: 422
Location: at my computer
Generally, the system works as follows:

The buyer makes a claim that the item is not as represented. The seller then can make their case and attempt to come to a mutual agreement with the buyer. If no mutual agreement is forthcoming, Paypal makes a determination of the merits of both parties' arguments, and decides how to resolve the matter. In 99% of all cases this means that they decide in favour of the buyer. At this point they reclaim the value of the disputed item from your paypal account and then place it in a sort of non-interest-earning escrow account. The money does not however get refunded until the buyer proves with a tracking number that the item has been shipped back to the seller. Once the buyer "proves" that they have returned the item to the seller, they then refund the money from the escrow account.

I have heard of many accounts of threats of sending items to collection, but have never heard of anybody ever having paypal actually go after them without there being absolute certainty that Paypal could prove that the seller was at fault. In your case, until you do not yet have the item back in your hands, they would be foolish to chase after you.

Now for some fun facts:
a friend of mine sold a beautiful Motta track bike to a coolio hipster in Los Angeles. The hipster received the bike, built it up and like so many first time fixed gear riders ended up riding head on into a kerb on his first outing. Being a real track bike, it had fag paper clearances and all it took was this one impact to bend things enough to bring the front wheel into contact. Well not wanting to admit that he was an aXXhole, he went through paypal to get a refund saying that the bike was defective prior to shipment. Luckily the seller had 72 date-stamped photos showing every possible angle of teh bike and demonstrating that the bike was 100% ok prior to shipment. Notwithstanding this proof paypal agreed that the buyer could return the bike to the seller for a complete refund. Then, instead of shipping tha actual bike, he simply took a photo and sent that by registered post, giving the tracking number to paypal. Paypal upon receipt of the tracking number refunded his money. Now the seller was out of his money, had a hold put on all funds in his paypal account (which it just so happens were more than double the amount of the bike), but also did not have the bike either. He ended up going to the authorities and opened a case for mail fraud against both Paypal and the buyer and within 24 hours had his money for the bike credited to his account, had the block removed and a letter of apology. I always did wonder what happened to the hipster.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:36 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2095
Location: Sheffield, top city
I sometimes think I should get with the times and use schmeebay and paypal and then stories such as these emerge and I think nah, give it a miss. I'm no doubt missing some good opportunities, but I have peace of mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:26 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:12 am
Posts: 1513
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Where abouts in Australia is it / he ? maybe i can help?


PS Pigman I use eBay a lot (mostly as a buyer)and have never had a problem . but it can turn ito a bidding match and more money than necessary is easily spent.
I also get the odd incredible bargain like the Brand new carbon soled shimano road shoes for the wife for AUD $62 delivered that will eventually replace the local bike shop ones that I paid AUD$299 for!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:46 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:09 pm
Posts: 221
Location: northampton
Hi Latman,

St Kilda, Victoria.

This whole thing has been a right drag, understand that at times there are differences of opinion etc over goods, I'm a reasonable man and thought I had resolved this through ebay, but no. My mistake was going away on holiday and not checking my messages at the time. However, I'm non too pleased with paypal not at least trying to contact me in another way - by phone or letter. I was wondering quite where they stand if they do, as threatened, pass this to a collection agency. Reasonableness being a cornerstone of the UK justice system, I would hope any legal action against me from paypal would come to nought because of this.

Just want it resolved! :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:48 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:12 am
Posts: 1513
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Well if you want it away from the" buyer" but its too expensive to get all the way home ,you can get it sent here as I have a factory with plenty of storage space, it is about 1750 km away though. http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=st%20k ... =en&tab=wl


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