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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:19 pm 
Pumpy's Bear
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Not a super retro road question I'm afraid.

I'm sure that 'lighter and stiffer frames' are an argument, and of course manufacturers could make fewer sizes, but did compact and semi-compact road frames come about due to the proliferation of high quality and, most importantly, long MTB posts?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:39 am 
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I reckon 2 things, both of which came around about the same time.

1. mike burrows working with giant to produce 3 sizes fit all, which they then proliferated the market with

2. pantani riding an upward sloping frame (semi compact these days) made it trendy and acceptable


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:52 am 
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ededwards wrote:
did compact and semi-compact road frames come about due to the proliferation of high quality and, most importantly, long MTB posts?

Not directly, I don't think. The first compact road frames I recall seeing on the mass market used aero seatposts. Long mtb posts had been around in large numbers since the late eighties, but it was another decade before compact road geometry hit the mainstream.

I think there were a number of factors at work. Welded frames allowed more freedom to slope tubes. Steel (and lugs) had disappeared from the peloton by the mid nineties. Road cycling as a leisure activity was in major decline in Britain and the US pre-Armstrong, and borrowing styling cues from the MTB market must have looked like a good way of selling road bikes to kids who had grown up with fat tyres and sloping top tubes. Burrows wasn't tied to traditional road-bike styling or construction, and Giant as a relative newcomer to the pro peloton was in a position to try something different. The ONCE team time trial successes of the late nineties showed that the concept was basically sound.


Last edited by one-eyed_jim on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:27 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:54 pm
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Cant answer your question Ed but just for the record I hate with a passion road bikes with sloping top tubes :D


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 Post subject: Frames.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:49 pm 
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Being a cynic(?), this is more than a little about marketing...kid everyone sloping top tubes with small(ish) frame are where it's at, then flood the market with cheap far eastern frames made by slaves (ok robots), and only make them in three sizes: small, medium and large.

Don't kid yourself this has anything to do with pro cycling...what has pro cycling become...particularly the TdF? A global marketing phenomenon designed to bring a wide range of brands to the consumer's attention in the global marketplace.

The consumer then not only consumes the idea but the brand/product..without discernment. Those with the knowledge and reject the dark side promote real bicycles made from steel on this forum.

Steel is real, anything else is just a compromise.

Roadking.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:28 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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here is, what I am lead to believe, is an early example from 1993:

Image

This turned out to be just a little long for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Frames.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:55 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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roadking wrote:
Don't kid yourself this has anything to do with pro cycling...what has pro cycling become...particularly the TdF? A global marketing phenomenon designed to bring a wide range of brands to the consumer's attention in the global marketplace.

Molteni? GAN? Mercier? BIC? Peugeot? Faema? Brooklyn? Panasonic? Perrier? Cochonou?

The professional peloton has always been a marketing tool for its sponsors. It's just become a more effective one.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:00 pm 
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I am fully aware of the history of the TdF...the key word though is"global".

Roadking.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:14 pm 
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roadking wrote:
I am fully aware of the history of the TdF...the key word though is"global".

I didn't mention the Tour de France.

Professional cycling has always been an international sport. Without wanting to quibble too much over definitions, what do you see as the material difference between an international marketing tool and a global one?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:04 pm 
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one-eyed_jim wrote:
roadking wrote:
I am fully aware of the history of the TdF...the key word though is"global".

I didn't mention the Tour de France.

Professional cycling has always been an international sport. Without wanting to quibble too much over definitions, what do you see as the material difference between an international marketing tool and a global one?


You're absolutely correct, you didn't mention the TdF I did merely to make a point about marketing and pro cycling. The TdF being the"model"for pro cycling as a global marketing tool.

Perhaps while we're quibbling, we should perhaps substitute"marketing" for"promotion"when referring to pro cycling and this subject in the classic period (say before 1987).

Whilst I would not use the term material as you do but I can perhaps take a stab at the meaning in your question.

The essential difference(s)are, and I would suggest sponsorship in pro cycling was international(and therefore parochial)in the mainland European sense, with competitors being primarily non English speaking (as a first language). Therefore the sport did not attract the global brands like Coca Cola/Motorola/Banesto/Sky until English as a first language riders began populating the European peleton: and therefore creating the interest among the global sponsors.

There was the early wave of the English speakers - Miller, Anderson, Yates, Elliott, Early Kelly, Roche...things began to get serious when Lemond began to get noticed and the TdF began to attract American money(Coca Cola)with an American star.

Sports sponsorship is an interesting subject and one that I've been fortunate enough to be published.

Roadking.


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