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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:00 pm
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Hello,

Posted in the FS/WTD section but looking for some advice also...

I'm on my last attempt to find a 50s /early 60s headset with a low stack of 33-34mm and a 27.0mm crown race.
Can anyone recommend a suitable headset to search for?

I have a TDC S Type and it's too tall at 36-37mm. Can only turn the locknut one and half, maybe now two turns at a push as the frame's just been refaced. Saw a Brampton Alatet, same thing as the TDC really(?), and it's 36mm too. The beautiful old 50s Stronglights I've seen occasionally on Ebay have all been too tall too. And I can't spot much on Velobase. I have an early Campagnolo Gran Sport, not quite period, but the right stack, but obviously 26.4mm race.

Looking like I'll either have to have the fork crown altered to 26.4mm. Or maybe the headtube could loose 2-3mm with some careful work. Seems a shame to alter it in any way though, or maybe it's silly to be purist about such things! Changing the crown race seems the better idea for future flexibility.

Anyway, any headset suggestions appreciated!

Daniel


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:54 am 
rBoTM Winner
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I could certainly make use of your Campagnolo Gran Sport for the rebuild of a mid-60's Masi Special that I have that requires a 34 mm stack height. :lol: :wink:

If you don't have to insert a center-pull brake hanger (which would seem obvious if you are building it up period correct), you can make do without the washer between cup and lock nut is you use a couple drops of lock-tight. This will save a couple mm. Likewise if you want to use a 26,4 in place of a 27, you can use a coke can spacer and when done properly, it will not move at all and nobody will be the wiser.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:29 pm
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Is there no way to run a mix and match headset? Maybe using the 27.0 race with a mixture of the other headset parts - I don't know how different the headset designs are between the two are so it may be a bad idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:04 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:00 pm
Posts: 608
Many thanks for the replies...

@Citoyen du monde...
I just got the Gran Sport one so I'll probably keep it for a bit I'm afraid. It's NOS and lovely, just needs bearings. Have to say, I wish I had a Masi Special it could grace! I've also got a Campagnolo Sport Steel crankset, so if I don't use the headset on the Rotrax, I'll use it with that crank on something later I reckon. Although I may start to get short of funds, so I'll let you be first to know if I need to recoup some money to help finish the bike!

Do you know when the GS Headsets date from? Velobase has it earlier than I would think, seems to be mixed up with the "Serie Strada"- part No.1039. The chap who kindly sold it to me said it didn't appear in his search of catalogues until 1971.

As for leaving out the washer/spacer... easily done on the GS, but can't do it with the TDC headset (S type) as it uses a toothed washer that fits the toothed upper race.

I had actually been thinking of using Mafac centrepulls. Would this really not be period correct? On the shimming I thought that'd be possible, so I guess altering the forks crown to 26.4 isn't a bad idea.

@ NickD...
I woudln't mix and match the two I have as they're both very nice examples of what they are. NOS GS and close NOS TDC. But did think about mixing and matching old headsets, but the trial and error of finding nice condition period bits to play with might get expensive!

Again thanks for the help.

Daniel


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:48 pm 
rBoTM Winner
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Cheesedisease wrote:
Many thanks for the replies...

@Citoyen du monde...
I just got the Gran Sport one so I'll probably keep it for a bit I'm afraid. It's NOS and lovely, just needs bearings. Have to say, I wish I had a Masi Special it could grace! I've also got a Campagnolo Sport Steel crankset, so if I don't use the headset on the Rotrax, I'll use it with that crank on something later I reckon. Although I may start to get short of funds, so I'll let you be first to know if I need to recoup some money to help finish the bike!

Do you know when the GS Headsets date from? Velobase has it earlier than I would think, seems to be mixed up with the "Serie Strada"- part No.1039. The chap who kindly sold it to me said it didn't appear in his search of catalogues until 1971.

As for leaving out the washer/spacer... easily done on the GS, but can't do it with the TDC headset (S type) as it uses a toothed washer that fits the toothed upper race.

I had actually been thinking of using Mafac centrepulls. Would this really not be period correct? On the shimming I thought that'd be possible, so I guess altering the forks crown to 26.4 isn't a bad idea.

@ NickD...
I woudln't mix and match the two I have as they're both very nice examples of what they are. NOS GS and close NOS TDC. But did think about mixing and matching old headsets, but the trial and error of finding nice condition period bits to play with might get expensive!

Again thanks for the help.

Daniel


There is reason for confusion with Campagnolo headsets. The original road headset was given the part number 1039 and called Gran Sport in the 50's (34 mm stack height). The track version was given the part number 1040 (also 34 mm stack height). These did not have the writing on the outside of the cups like most that we are accustomed to. The very first versions of 1039 also had a seal built into them and all had 8 sided upper cups and lock nuts. In the very late 50's and early 60's, they first dropped the seal and then modified them by adding the writing on the outside of the cups. When the writing was added, they also changed the name to Record (38 mm stack height), but kept the same part number (things were simpler back then). Then in the early 70's, to be able to offer a lower price point model, they introduced a model that they now called Sport with part number 1040/A with identical dimensions (34 mm stack height) to the track version, but having only two spanner faces on the upper cup and slightly more enveloping cups and consequently slightly different fork crown race.

Mafac centerpulls were indeed available in the 50's, but tend to be quite costly if you are looking for ones with the correct markings (I believe they should have a "period" between every letter, meaning M.A.F.A.C. instead of teh later MAFAC)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:32 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:00 pm
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That's great information.

The headset I have is the one in the photo below, so it is the Sport then, 1040/A? Got the engraving and only two spanner flats on the upper cup you mention.

I'll look at the Mafac brakes when I get home. I got them on here a while back and I'm pretty sure they're not the M.A.F.A.C. ones you mention, they've got those red bushings too. I reckon they'll have to do though. They came with levers with full rubber hoods too. I've wondered what period they're from. The levers are half closed / half open at the back and have brass adusters. Am I right to think that indicates later, 1970s probably.

Anyway, many thanks for showing interest and great pointers on the early Campag headset models.


Attachments:
GSHeadset.jpg
GSHeadset.jpg [ 37.07 KiB | Viewed 1001 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
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Location: Cotswolds
If you bear in mind I gave up mending bikes in 1966, the Campagnolo headsets I remember from the early days were road and track. The track had 5/32 balls and was used when we didn't have enough room for the road, which had 3/16 balls.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:10 pm 
rBoTM Winner
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Cheesedisease wrote:
That's great information.

The headset I have is the one in the photo below, so it is the Sport then, 1040/A? Got the engraving and only two spanner flats on the upper cup you mention.


Yes 1970's 1040/A!


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