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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:23 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 3798
Location: Staffordshire
For touring I would say go for a powder coat. It will be cheaper and much more durable against the inevitable knocks and scrapes.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlton.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:11 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:29 pm
Posts: 503
roadking wrote:
My original reply suggested the frame was late 70s.

Let's not confuse Carlton with the SBDU. Carlton Worksop bought by Raleigh in 1960, Worksop factory closed in 1981.

SBDU only built made to measure, no off-the-peg frames. Created in 1974 by Gerald O'Donovan in Ilkeston.

27.2mm doesn't guarantee 531 (it could be 531 and 27mm - there are butted and plain guage tubes in 531) and then there are other 531s - 531C, 531SL, 531Pro etc.

531 is a classic and superb tubeset, but a lot of mass produced frames and bikes in order to benefit from the halo of 531 often had only 531 main tubes: unless the sticker says"main tubes, stays and forks", then it only has 3 main tubes of 531 and then often only plain guage ones.

I ordered a new SBDU frame in the day (still have it) - a graduation present from my Dad and have two early Carltons (all 531 throughout).

This Carlton is good frame and should be preserved and used, but it is not an"exotic".

Hope this helps, cheers, Roadking.


I wasn't confusing Carlton and SBDU, however, SBDU made a few off the peg frames, but not many.

I only said 27.2 would point to 531 - obviously other seatpost sizes could indicate quality tubing, but of course the smaller the seatpost, often the cheaper the tubing, at least with older road bikes. As I understand it, some makers reamed out the seat tube a little to suggest a better tubing than a bike may have had in reality. The age of this bike would point to it being before 531SL/C/Pro etc I believe?

I agree about 3 main tubes 531, although it indicates a frame of at least reasonable quality, the lugs, fork crown, dropouts etc are as good as pointers to frame quality.

A Worksop Carlton is not an exotic, you're right, but I'm don't think I was saying it was. There are very few real exotics anyway, although personally I'd class your SBDU frame as one. However, I would consider all of the Worksop built bikes to be worth a respray, if the OP likes the bike.

You are a lucky man (with a generous dad), I wish I had an SBDU frame!, especially a 753 Team livery frame - one of my dream bikes.


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 Post subject: Carlton Again.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:34 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
I get a bit too anal at times about details Nick, so I apologise. I didn't mean anything by your remarks...

I'm a little precious about the SBDU as I had the frame made, met the guys etc.

As far as I am aware the SBDU did not make Off-the-Peg (OtP), I have a whole bunch of brochures (still) as I dreamt about an SBDU frame for a while before travelling north to order one.

Often the Lightweight Unit (LU) at Nottingham is confused with the SBDU, the Lightweight Unit built real nice OtP framsets (and a limited range of complete bikes - I've had one of those from new - and to the uninitiated an LU frame can be mistaken or passed off as an SBDU one.

The SBDU mantra was always fitness for purpose*...hence my SBDU is built in 531 Professional; which replaced 531SL.

*O'Donovan, even if you just wanted a bike to pose on would only build to this ethos.

Thanx, enjoyed shooting the virtual breeze with you on this cold day.

Cheers, Roadking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:25 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:29 pm
Posts: 503
I don't know much about the lightweight unit - I know a reasonable amount about SDBU and more about the Worksop built frames up until 81, and the Worksop serial numbered (generally mid-high range) bikes from then until the mid-late 80s. I suppose it helps having some of the old Carlton/Raleigh frame builders in the local area to ask questions of.

From the list of your bikes, you seem to have some similar ones to me - I have two Carltons, one 60s, one 70s, and a couple of W serial number Raleighs, one a Team replica from 78 the other an 86 bike. I also have a 60's and an 80s Geoffrey Butler!

Cold - and very snowy here. I can't ride my bike today, so I might as well talk about them. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:36 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 1032
Location: West Yorkshire
Well if you want range then go triple. I like the Campag triples 53/42/30 as I spend most of my time on the 42. The 30 is great for long grinding hills. I use mine with a closely spaced 13-23 cassette.
If triples aren't your thing then 53/39 double is available to you. Combine that with a 14-28 9 speed Veloce cassette and you've got almost as low a 1st gear as with your Megarange freewheel and 52/42 chainset.

I did have a 48/34 double ages ago but for touring I sometimes found I was changing between chainrings a bit too often. Maybe 46/34 would have been better. For this reason I've resisted getting a "compact" chainset.

For a Chorus or Record triple you would need a Chorus/Record English threaded 111 mm bottom bracket. The cheaper Campag triples use a different 115.5 mm BB.
If you go Campag double like 53/39 then a 102 mm BB is needed for Chorus/Record or 111 mm for the cheaper ones (a different 111 mm to the triples!).

All this info is for the "Ergo era" square taper chainsets, I don't know about the earlier stuff between the classic chainset you have and the Ergo era. As for the latest external bearing Campag stuff with the rubbish seals on the bearings. :roll:

If you keep your classic chainset then Megarange is the only way to go as 41t is the smallest inner ring for those ones. Replacements are still available but Campag ones are horrendously expensive.

Are your 9 speed hubs Campag or Shimano compatible? I hope they're Campag after all that!! Mind you chainsets are pretty much universal. I've mixed classics like yours with 8/9 speed stuff. The only trouble comes when using newer chainsets with older wider chains - sometimes.

If you go for the silver Campag gear as others have suggested it should look good. Of course you'll need a new rear mech and possibly a front one as well and some nice more powerful brakes....

You'll have to sell all those old bits to fund it all. First dibs on the chainset and bottom bracket. :oops:

Mark.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:54 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Nick,

you are local-ish to Worksop - am I right?

How come then you have two Geoffrey Butlers? I am a Surrey boy and used to walk past Butler's shop every day on my way to school (shop still on corner (Coombe Road/South End, Croydon; opposite a lovely Art Deco glass Fiat showroom called Carrs); GBs seems to have been there forever.

You probably know this...GBs did not build they subbed out frame building to various builders...but having the GB name was pretty prestigious in itself.

Russell Williams was a successful GB rider.

My GB was built by a guy called Cliff Shrubb, who use to build out of a shop in Whitehorse Road, Croydon. It was purchased new by a friend of my Dad's - the friend was gonna throw it in the skip!

Cheers, Roadking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:13 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:29 pm
Posts: 503
Yes - about six miles south of Worksop, but only for the last five years.

I'm from Kent originally and picked up the first (1960s) GB from it's original owner in Croydon about ten years ago. The second one is a recent purchase, so recent in fact that I haven't seen it, it's waiting with relatives in Kent until I can get down to pick it up. I wish I knew who built either of them.

Strangely, only one of my Worksop built frames was bought here, of the others, one came from Kent, one from Monaco via France and the third from out of area too -and with a Mercian branded respray.


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 Post subject: Small World.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:23 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
I used to live in the Weald of Kent not far from R Tun Wells.

Roadking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:40 am 
Newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 7
I thought this might get confusing. Lots of routes to take i guess.

So if i were to keep my chainset as is. Can it be used with 9 speed? And if not, then mega range is the best i can really acheive for usability without spending alot on new campag rings?

Searching on ebay for campag chorus is throwing up lots of modern kit, what age are you thinking. Anything else i can search for to narrow my results to what I would want?

For that route, i guess i'm looking for front/rear mechs, chainset+bb, ergo shifters? Would bar end shifters be another (maybe easier?) option?

It would be great if anyone has any links to the specific products they mention as i'm not that familar with the ranges and eras.

I really appreciate the comments so far and i'll get some more detailed pictures up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:11 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Belfast
campag chorus is 90's stuff really, not cutting edge enough to be crazy prices not old enough for vintage folks. thats going down a pretty modern route though.

personally id go for a set of new aero brake levers if I was you at a minimum.

im not sure if you can run modern sti/ergo shifters on old campag, anyone?


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