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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:06 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 7
Hey guys I'm new here. After doing a quick Google trying to find some info on my bike, i came across someone doing exactly what i want to do with my same bike! So I knew this was the right place to come!

So I'm not the most experienced cyclist but 18 months ago I took my Carlton over to America to ride a cool 1000 down part of the West Coast. It was an amazing trip and my bike soon became part of it and I can't let it go and think she deserves a revamp.

Here she is pre-tour
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A few pics from our first tour
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We did have helmets, don't worry ;)

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Really amazing trip (which i'm hoping to turn into a short video peice for uni) and we're about to start planning another. Before this though I want to get the old girl looking swish as she's a bit rough around the edges, I'd also like to modernise it as well. I don't know how people on here feel about that, but if i can, i don't see why not?

First thing, would anyone be able to identify the model i've got? And maybe even date it. I have the numbers i think WK9004391 on the bottom of the BB area. Is the frame 531? What sort of range were they in back in the day? I find te frame a nice ride anyway and it's a good size for me so it doesn't really matter. But it'd be nice to know some of its history.

2nd, I'm thinking of getting it blasted and painted with new (orig.) decals. In the pictures the blue kinda of suits it but after seeing from the other thread of the white with black decals i think it looks really classy. Opinions/ideas? Also i'd like to strip the bike down my self asmuch as i can. What tool do i need. How do i go about removing the forks/headset and cranks? The cranks look most difficult, is it a special crank extractor?

3rd. Upgrades! I'm thinking about buying a groupset, 2nd hand if i can - I'm a bit out with specs, i used to be into my mountain biking a good few years back but it seems there's lots more names about now. Maybe 105 or older dura ace gear? Now, with the bike being old, it looks like the most difficult bits would be the headset, BB and chainset - What do i need to look out for with them. I'd like to keep the stem and handle bars.

I apolagise for this long winded post and i look forward to your responses and then i can get a nice build thread with pics and hopefully learn alot along the way :)

Jamie


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:28 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 1032
Location: West Yorkshire
That's a fine looking machine and judging by the fag paper clearance between the front tyre and the brakes it is a racing frame rather than a tourer.
Hopefully the Carlton experts will be along soon to be more helpful.

I would think twice about modernising it too far. Does everything still work OK? Do the brakes stop the bike when needed and the gears change? If so just try to replace any worn out bits with modern equivalents or 2nd hand stuff in better nick.

Definitely keep the old quill stem etc. as new 1" headsets are available if yours is worn. The chainset looks like Campag or a copy of so a standard crank extractor should be fine. BB/chainset can be replaced with new stuff if you need it that is still in keeping with the old style. Velo Orange do some nice retro-style new kit.

The trip sounds awesome - how was touring in the States? I'm hoping to hit the West Coast next year (sadly not on a bike).

Mark.


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 Post subject: Carlton.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:32 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Hi,

trip looked awesome.

Your Carlton, built after Raleigh took over Carlton (according to your frame number), and possibly built in Worksop - date it late 70s.

It might be 531, but not always the set, in other words could be just main tubes and not maintubes, stays and forks.

You should equip it with period or not-too-modern components.

Some more detailed pics of the lugs would help, and see my reply on the white bike's thread.

I have a lovely 1957/58 Carlton.

Cheers, Roadking.


Last edited by roadking on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:46 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 7
The West Coast was great. We went in August/September. Temperature wasn't that hot, just right really. Starting in Astoria, Oregon and ending up passed Leguna Seca Raceway Below Santa Cruz. Quite alot of the trip was just down the 101 highway. A great road and for the most part had a wide verge for us. Highway 1 was a bit more sketchy but still fine. Great roads, great scenery, very friendly people, cheap camping, lots of high calorie food, great!

It was our first time and it wasn't exactly planned! We just rode aiming for a campsite before it got dark, bar a couple of road side camping experiences when things didn't go to plan :lol: . I could do the same journey again! But I think our plans are to stick to europe this year.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's a racer, but it was fine with me on tour and now i've got the bond there, i've just got to do the illogical thing to do and stick with it - sorry purists.

The reason i want to upgrade, in part is due to the respray. One thing i struggled with was the lack of gears. It had a full on racing cassette to begin with and i finally ended up with a 7 speed with mega range, not ideal but it was a life saver! So i'm looking to really add more range. Also i've already got a nice pair of Mavic Open Pros built up on 9sp hubs. Not paid for yet but i think they'd really suit the bike...

For the respray, i'm thinking it'll be better to remove the BB and headset and replacing them. Would i need to go to a bike shop for this? And what/where do i look for replacements?

Thanks so far


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 Post subject: Carlton.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:24 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
If you haven't tools to remove the BB or headset then best go to a shop, replacements should not be a problem a little depends on the shop.

I'd check out the frame quality* first ensure you really want to spend money on it. Agood repaint from a respectable refinsher with correct transfers will cost a minimum £120.00.

*What Carlton it is.

I'm touring the Loire valley in the summer on a bike my Dad toured the Loire valley on in 1951 - his actual bike(a fillet brazed Hobbs of Barbican that he bought new).

It's the 60th anniversary tour!!!

Hope this helps.

Roadking.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:34 am 
Newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 7
That sounds awesome. I love the idea of stuff like that. I saw your thread about the L'Eroica and passed it on to a friend as we were thinking about Italy for the next one anyway. Could be a nice addition

I'll take some pictures of the lugwork tomorrow.

Wow at the Velo Orange store - Please tell me there's cheaper alternatives or maybe my campags could be brought back to life with some elbow grease? Could I get replacement chainrings for them?

Again with replacing the BB, is there a type and size i need to go for specific to the frame. By the way people are talking it seems it should be common?

What do you guys suggest for gearing. I would really like to go 9 speed double and ditch the downtube shifters for somthing a bit better suited for modern riding and i'd like to gain on the range that i am missing out on at the moment. Suggestions for more modern or more inline with the bike if i were to keep it more 'vintage', appreaciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:19 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Belfast
ok I can feel the flames coming before I write this....lol

http://www.hlloydcycles.com/

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CARLTON-decals-Mi ... 5ad9f3798e

These guys have those decals (same as on my bike) £24 a set.

you could have it powdercoated for £50ish.

whats size is the brake drop? are those 27" rims brake drop looks very short? Could this be a raleigh resprayed with carlton decals?

I personally wouldnt see anything wrong in swapping out those old brakes for something like campag chrous ones off ebay or something like that and new aero levers (might involve bit of drilling for the allen key fit modern brakes, no big deal).

I like the cinelli stem and campag headset you have now, looks nice, dont see any point in replaceing it, just have it serviced.

Personally I think what you really want is just go fully silver 9 speed campag chrous groupset with ergo shifters. Carlton neo/retro kinda look. No sure how much work that would require with BB, your 9s speed hubs though, im sure someones done it before.

Is there a way to fit ergo/sti style drop shifters onto that kind of older campag?

I can hear the knives sharpening.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:38 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Belfast
Imagine something like this...

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=125451

keep current stem/headset seatpost.

Silver campag chrous instead of the stuff above and keep your current forks.

should be able to pick up the bits on ebay for reasonable.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:47 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:29 pm
Posts: 503
I need closer pics to give more info on the model, but it's a 1979 Worksop built Carlton - there is a slight possibility it's a Raleigh, but unless it has holes in the headtube for a Raleigh badge i doubt it.

It's almost definitely 531 - the Worksop factory was the higher end Raleigh/Carlton bikes, with SBDU for the really high end stuff. It appears to have a nice semi sloping crown on the forks. Does it have Campag ends? (dropouts). If the seatpost is 27.2 that would point to it being 531 too.

As to upgrades - if you want indexed gears etc, then either a 90's Shimano or Campag group would look fairly good - the newer stuff might be a bit too new in looks, especially the wheels. Dura ace has compatablity issues with every other group until about 96, so I'd possible steer clear of that.


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 Post subject: More Carlton Info'.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:17 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
My original reply suggested the frame was late 70s.

Let's not confuse Carlton with the SBDU. Carlton Worksop bought by Raleigh in 1960, Worksop factory closed in 1981. Nottingham built Carltons continued to use the'W'prefix for the frame number.

The Raleigh SBDU only built made to measure, no off-the-peg frames (SBDU Ilkeston not to be confused with the Lightweight Unit at Nottingham). SBDU created in 1974 by Gerald O'Donovan in Ilkeston.

27.2mm doesn't guarantee 531 (it could be 531 and 27mm - there are butted and plain guage tubes in 531) and then there are other 531s - 531C, 531SL, 531Pro etc.

531 is a classic and superb tubeset, but a lot of mass produced frames and bikes in order to benefit from the halo of 531 often had only 531 main tubes: unless the sticker says"main tubes, stays and forks", then it only has 3 main tubes of 531 and then often only plain guage ones.

I ordered a new SBDU frame in the day (still have it) - a graduation present from my Dad and have two early Carltons (all 531 throughout).

This Carlton is good frame and should be preserved and used, but it is not an"exotic".

Hope this helps, cheers, Roadking.


Last edited by roadking on Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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