Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:41 pm

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:05 pm
Posts: 254
Location: High On A Hill
Being somewhat of a stickler for detail when it comes to building up a classic bike, I can't help but notice the number of frames being offered for sale with reproduction decals that are incorrect and in some cases downright fraudulent.

I tend to spend quite a bit of time researching potential buys (sad I know), but prefer to see a few scratches and faded decals rather than shiny looking paint on a 20/30yr frameset.

Although I would probably not spend more than a few hundred quid on a good steel frame, it would be frustrating to get a plain gauge donkey of a frame when you thought you were buying a 753 lightweight cheetah.

So far I haven't bought a donkey but I'm sure some have.


8) 8) 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:11 pm 
King of the DuckBoard
King of the DuckBoard

Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:30 pm
Posts: 21466
I agree.

But how do you tell a 653 from a hi tens :? Perhaps a flick test :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:19 pm 
Gold Trader
Gold Trader
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:14 pm
Posts: 3836
Location: Somerset
This is a quandry.

For me I love finding out what a frame is, and researching it, then restoring it or making it my own.

My Dyna Tech Ti road bike is a case in point. I got a 625Ti in about 1993. I have had it since and when it looked really tatty I had it resprayed. The Metal Matrix Chronos road bike was top of the range in 1993, I loved the deep purple ends and sparking silver main tubes. So I had mine painted to match.
I have never passed it as an MMC, or tried to. Just had my oldest and best loved bike painted in my favourite colour scheme.

I am sure that some less than scrupulous individuals have abused the fact that many frames share similar features and decals are freely availible.
Frame numbers are the key, as are marque experts.

Many on here know an almost unhealthy amount about their chosen brand or steed. Use them, pick their brains, lots of pics and as much info as possible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:34 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:54 pm
Posts: 165
tintin40 wrote:
I agree.

But how do you tell a 653 from a hi tens :? Perhaps a flick test :?

look inside the bb shell ,the chain stays should be black on the inside is one give away and the fork column will be a lighter gauge than say 531 and also black :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:17 am 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:44 pm
Posts: 422
Location: at my computer
Don't worry about decals or tubing types. Just take it for a ride. If it rides nicely, that is all you need to know.

All things being equal, a good builder can generally make a better riding bike with poor tubing than can a poor builder with good tubing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:58 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Belfast
I think theres a tipping point.

If the paint is rusted/heavily chipped and generally very ragged I dont see the problem in a respray.

If the paint work is still in pretty decent shape, im all for a bit of t-cut and sympathy. Depends on bike too, rarity wise.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:26 am 
Gold Trader
Gold Trader
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:14 pm
Posts: 3836
Location: Somerset
playford wrote:
I think theres a tipping point.

If the paint is rusted/heavily chipped and generally very ragged I dont see the problem in a respray.

If the paint work is still in pretty decent shape, im all for a bit of t-cut and sympathy. Depends on bike too, rarity wise.


Very true. Hit the nail on the head.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:37 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Guys,

you are absolutely right, given the interest and rightly so in"classic"framesets and bikes - especially steel ones.

Best indentifier is always lugs and originality, however if a frame has been restored there might always be a question mark abot authenticity.

For my part if I buy a frame/bike I'll try to keep it original, but if it is but needs a resto then I'll take pics before and after.

If it sees to good to be true it probably is - a fraud.

This forum and site is a great medium, so much knowledge, so don't be hurried into a purchase do the research.

I always wanted a Gillot, nearly bought one (it wasn't particularly cheap either), I asked a few questions of people who knew about these frames and discovered it was a ringer...however when I asked the seller for the frame number his lack of reply made me suspect a fraud.

Cheers, Roadking.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:31 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:29 pm
Posts: 503
TheElectronKid wrote:
Being somewhat of a stickler for detail when it comes to building up a classic bike, I can't help but notice the number of frames being offered for sale with reproduction decals that are incorrect and in some cases downright fraudulent.

I tend to spend quite a bit of time researching potential buys (sad I know), but prefer to see a few scratches and faded decals rather than shiny looking paint on a 20/30yr frameset.

Although I would probably not spend more than a few hundred quid on a good steel frame, it would be frustrating to get a plain gauge donkey of a frame when you thought you were buying a 753 lightweight cheetah.

So far I haven't bought a donkey but I'm sure some have.


8) 8) 8)


I think you have to do the best you can. A few examples from my own fleet.

Carlton Flyer - bought as a near basket case, repainted with correct decals, fine.

60's Geoffrey Butler and 60's Mercian - both have their correct decals and paint jobs at the moment, but both need repainting, the Mercian especially, and I can't get exactly the right decals, so I will do the best I can.

My day to day 80's 531 Raleigh, badged as a Rourke, and with 653 decals. I bough it like this, and paid a very reasonable price, but it isn't what it says it is - it's a pro respray, so the incorrect tubing decals are a little naughty, whoever did them. It rides brilliantly though.

The truth is that a lot of classic frames have paintwork that is too far gone to realistically save, and much as I'd like to keep them original, if it has rust, it needs painting. Waxing etc will only keep rust at bay for a while.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:55 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:38 am
Posts: 19
Hi Nick,

I wonder if I can ask, I'm about to restore two Geoffrey Butler Frames, both will need a respray but I am worried about the Transfers, can you advise where I might get authentic ones from?

The track Frame has a Columbus Gara Sticker on, so I will also need to obtain a replacement, the Touring/Training Frame was 531 and I know that for a fact as I bought it direct from the original owner, so again I need to find stickers for that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many Thanks.


Attachments:
Head Set Touring Frame.jpg
Head Set Touring Frame.jpg [ 46.64 KiB | Viewed 1206 times ]
RH Touring Frame SM.jpg
RH Touring Frame SM.jpg [ 117.16 KiB | Viewed 1206 times ]
Head Tube SM.jpg
Head Tube SM.jpg [ 64.32 KiB | Viewed 1206 times ]
RH View Sm.jpg
RH View Sm.jpg [ 126.11 KiB | Viewed 1206 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Midlife, SimonJC and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group