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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:21 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:57 pm
Posts: 641
In a previous post you will see I have a 'roger hammond team frame ' from the year he won the worlds. Have been in contact with Roger and Orbit and it cannot be identified by its frame number as neither had a copy of the frame numbers of the bikes used. This may seam strange but in the 'good ole days' who would have thought old bike would be worth more in 30 years time than when new. Have listed all the 'team' bikes I received in 19 years as a pro--- of the 28 frames /bikes listed I do not know the frame number of one bike/frame !!!!
Sports Motors 4 x Carltons 2 X - 1 road - 1 track
Sports Motors/Tower Cycles 3 x Tower 2X -1 road
Milremo 3 x Jacques Anquitil 2X (harry quinn) - 1 road
Ron Kitching 7 x Ron Kitching 2X (harry quinn) 2 road (mkm) 1 track (mkm) 2 Speedwell titanium
Mcr Wh Trumanns Steel 3 x Knight cycles 2X - 1 road
Trumanns Steel 4 x Ron Kitching (pink) 3 X ( neil Orrell) 1 road
Sportive Perform 3 x Alan 2X - 1 road


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:54 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:50 pm
Posts: 444
Location: Sheffield
I have a Concorde PDM ex team bike and it doesn't have a frame number just it's size 58 and X which I have been told stands for Columbus SLX tubing. I have to say though the quality of the ex team frames seem to be a step up compared to a shop model.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:53 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2098
Location: Sheffield, top city
Team frames were in most cases not built by mass producers, but by small craftsman frameshop. I recall BITD my local framebuilder being asked to tender to build frames for a well known trade team. Business being good, and he being one man, he declined. But he did get involved in repairing and refinishing frames for a UK domestic pro team.

Pre carbon, some top-flight TDF riders often made claims that they only trusted a certain frame builder, who they had established a good working relationship with.

Some small builders dont bother with frame numbers, and if they did, they certainly wouldnt fit with the large brand numbering system.

Raleigh were I think, an exception cos they had their SBDU at Ilkeston


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:18 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:54 pm
Posts: 165
I used to work at Orbit ,all frames were stamped on the BB shell with a serial no.Maybe it was just a spray job ,lots of pros bikes are made by specials builders and sprayed in team colurs.Any pictures of the frame ? I probably sprayed it some horrid fade/flo colour


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:58 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5133
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
Barry Hoban's 'Merciers' were Woodrups as were the later Viking (Irish incarnation I think) team frames and the Bantel 'Hugh Porters'.

Alan Ramsbottom used a Harry Quinn for some time when he was riding for continental trade teams.

I have it on good authority that (unless anyone knows different?) the 60's Falcon team frames were built in-house. Later ones were Dolans.

Wilson Cycles (Birmingham) team frames were probably Major Nicholls.

Interesting that you say that 2 of your Kitching team frames were MKM's Orbeas. I thought there was no commercial connection between the two.


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 Post subject: old team bikes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:07 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:57 pm
Posts: 641
Cannot understand the no link between Ron Kitching and MKM ask Jack Conroy he will know the real truth. all I know is my track bike and road bike were built by Wes.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:12 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:57 pm
Posts: 641
AndyPA wrote:
I used to work at Orbit ,all frames were stamped on the BB shell with a serial no.Maybe it was just a spray job ,lots of pros bikes are made by specials builders and sprayed in team colurs.Any pictures of the frame ? I probably sprayed it some horrid fade/flo colour


have been in touch with Frank clements and he said the frame was probably built in sheffield, has SIRIUS frame transfers and 753 stickers but has a strange seat post size and braze in the B/bracket;

do you remember the tiger paintwork on Rogers cross bike ??? do you have a design you could let me have as would love to build a replica of the bike>>


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 Post subject: Re: old team bikes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:55 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5133
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
orbeas wrote:
Cannot understand the no link between Ron Kitching and MKM ask Jack Conroy he will know the real truth. all I know is my track bike and road bike were built by Wes.


I understood that Ron had no financial connection with MKM except for being their landlord at Chapel Works but, thinking about it a bit more, you've confirmed the connection regarding supplying frames to RK. The publicity photos for MKM and RK bikes were very similar.

Have you seen this?

http://www.mkm-cycles.co.uk/

There's a bit about the RK connection in the 'History' section.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:24 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:54 pm
Posts: 165
orbeas wrote:
AndyPA wrote:
I used to work at Orbit ,all frames were stamped on the BB shell with a serial no.Maybe it was just a spray job ,lots of pros bikes are made by specials builders and sprayed in team colurs.Any pictures of the frame ? I probably sprayed it some horrid fade/flo colour


have been in touch with Frank clements and he said the frame was probably built in sheffield, has SIRIUS frame transfers and 753 stickers but has a strange seat post size and braze in the B/bracket;

do you remember the tiger paintwork on Rogers cross bike ??? do you have a design you could let me have as would love to build a replica of the bike>>

email me or post on here some close ups of the rear drop outs and seat stay lugs and I can tell who built it.I remember it being sprayed in fact I probably sprayed it,not to sure if it was built there.Not that it matters but nobody had a 753 cert at Orbit.Early 753 was a 25mm seat I/D ,Sirius was one of their/logo brand names


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:06 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:04 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Completely in the dark, thanks to me good mate Terry....
pigman wrote:
Team frames were in most cases not built by mass producers, but by small craftsman frameshop.


The ANC-Halfords "Peugeots" at the '87 TdF were apparently built by Brian Rourke; there are no doubt countless other examples out there both at home and abroad.

David


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