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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:46 am 
The Guv'nor
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Wonder if anyone has any actual experience of doing this? I'm not even too clear on the spacing of said cassette, although the information here > http://www.bikepro.com/products/rear_de ... rrder.html would indicate it be 4.8mm given these Mavic cassettes were designed for ZAP.

I have tried indexing a set of 8sp record ergos, 5mm spaced Sachs cassette and Mavic 840 mech in the past. This failed dismally, assume the mech would've been the issue here.

Believe that the GAN team may have used Campag Ergos, campag rear mechs along with a campag exa-drive block (or custom spaced mavic) on a 571/2 rear hub. Source for this is tears for gears > http://www.tearsforgears.com/2010/04/2- ... ubaix.html

Also read here that GAN may have used sachs ergos (campag ergos with a shimano spaced 'disc' I believe) with a complete MAvic setup.

Basically, anyone any ideas!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Location: Completely in the dark, thanks to me good mate Terry....
Shimano-spaced cassette (and thus Mavic and later Sachs 8sp should be OK to, all are 4.8mm as far as I know) with a Mavic 840 and 10sp Campag levers definitely works OK, my road and 'cross race bikes are set up like this; the older 10sp Ergos and the newer "Escape" style are both equally happy with Mavic 8sp.
GAN/Credit Agricole seem to have used all sorts of combinations, definitely seen pics of Chris Boardman using a mostly Mavic setup but with an all-Sachs derailleur/levers combo. At one point they might also have used STIs but with some Mavic kit such as the Dia-Compe pattern brakes.

David


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:40 pm 
The Guv'nor
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David B wrote:
Shimano-spaced cassette (and thus Mavic and later Sachs 8sp should be OK to, all are 4.8mm as far as I know) with a Mavic 840 and 10sp Campag levers definitely works OK, my road and 'cross race bikes are set up like this; the older 10sp Ergos and the newer "Escape" style are both equally happy with Mavic 8sp.
GAN/Credit Agricole seem to have used all sorts of combinations, definitely seen pics of Chris Boardman using a mostly Mavic setup but with an all-Sachs derailleur/levers combo. At one point they might also have used STIs but with some Mavic kit such as the Dia-Compe pattern brakes.

David



Hmm, surprised you got it working, according to this > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html the spacing should be well off. Think I tried ergos with a 5mm spaced casette and 840 mech with the 8 speed and 9 speed discs in.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:53 pm 
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John wrote:
David B wrote:
Shimano-spaced cassette (and thus Mavic and later Sachs 8sp should be OK to, all are 4.8mm as far as I know) with a Mavic 840 and 10sp Campag levers definitely works OK, my road and 'cross race bikes are set up like this; the older 10sp Ergos and the newer "Escape" style are both equally happy with Mavic 8sp.
GAN/Credit Agricole seem to have used all sorts of combinations, definitely seen pics of Chris Boardman using a mostly Mavic setup but with an all-Sachs derailleur/levers combo. At one point they might also have used STIs but with some Mavic kit such as the Dia-Compe pattern brakes.

David



Hmm, surprised you got it working, according to this > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html the spacing should be well off. Think I tried ergos with a 5mm spaced casette and 840 mech with the 8 speed and 9 speed discs in.


But see also;

http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946

Scroll down to the colour-coded "Shimano mechs" table, and you'll see that it's not such a loopy idea after all.

David


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:44 pm 
The Guv'nor
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David B wrote:
John wrote:
David B wrote:
Shimano-spaced cassette (and thus Mavic and later Sachs 8sp should be OK to, all are 4.8mm as far as I know) with a Mavic 840 and 10sp Campag levers definitely works OK, my road and 'cross race bikes are set up like this; the older 10sp Ergos and the newer "Escape" style are both equally happy with Mavic 8sp.
GAN/Credit Agricole seem to have used all sorts of combinations, definitely seen pics of Chris Boardman using a mostly Mavic setup but with an all-Sachs derailleur/levers combo. At one point they might also have used STIs but with some Mavic kit such as the Dia-Compe pattern brakes.

David



Hmm, surprised you got it working, according to this > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html the spacing should be well off. Think I tried ergos with a 5mm spaced casette and 840 mech with the 8 speed and 9 speed discs in.


But see also;

http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946

Scroll down to the colour-coded "Shimano mechs" table, and you'll see that it's not such a loopy idea after all.

David


I wasn't saying your idea was loopy, just recall how much hassle I had trying to index using Mavic with zero success!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:36 pm 
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John wrote:
David B wrote:
John wrote:
David B wrote:
Shimano-spaced cassette (and thus Mavic and later Sachs 8sp should be OK to, all are 4.8mm as far as I know) with a Mavic 840 and 10sp Campag levers definitely works OK, my road and 'cross race bikes are set up like this; the older 10sp Ergos and the newer "Escape" style are both equally happy with Mavic 8sp.
GAN/Credit Agricole seem to have used all sorts of combinations, definitely seen pics of Chris Boardman using a mostly Mavic setup but with an all-Sachs derailleur/levers combo. At one point they might also have used STIs but with some Mavic kit such as the Dia-Compe pattern brakes.

David




Hmm, surprised you got it working, according to this > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html the spacing should be well off. Think I tried ergos with a 5mm spaced casette and 840 mech with the 8 speed and 9 speed discs in.


But see also;

http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946

Scroll down to the colour-coded "Shimano mechs" table, and you'll see that it's not such a loopy idea after all.

David


I wasn't saying your idea was loopy, just recall how much hassle I had trying to index using Mavic with zero success!


Sorry to hear it's all been a bit fruitless so far. Only problem I have had is the back of the derailleur cage catching on the spokes when on the biggest sprocket; probably need to move the cassette slightly outboard as the trimming screws don't seem to have solved that one.

David


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:53 pm 
The Guv'nor
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What hubs are you using?

Have the exact same issue on my 501 hubs with an 8 speed block. When cranking up hills in the biggest rear cog my awesome power (or more likely gut) causes the wheels to flex enough the cage pings on the spokes. Was thinking of putting a larger big cog on than 21 (or 22?) in the hope it would move i that bit further away from the spokes.

As for my fruitless build here it is > http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... x&start=15 Indexed fine in the stand but on the road was crap.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:00 pm 
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The hub on the 'cross bike is a Dura-Ace (2006 model), that on the road bike is somewhat less recent being a Maillard New Success (pre-Sachs era with the circle/"m" logo on it). 'Cross bike runs a SRAM PG-850 cassette (road not MTB), road bike has a Shimano HG50 13-23. Ergo levers and 840 rear mechs identical on both.

David


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Update: "pinging" due to cage catching on hub turned out to be down to having a jockey wheel bolt screwed in too far!! All rather academic now though, having trashed the rear mech on the 'cross bike at a very swampy Hillingdon on Sunday [1], resulting in the derailleur pulling itself out of the frame (frame dropout is OK thanks to the "breakaway" nature of the Ergal mounting bolt on the 840, which now has no threads on it) and jamming the drivetrain. Thanks to Retrobiker jm, a sort-of-equivalent Sachs replacement is on its way from Cornwall so will have a working bike in time for my next race <sighs of relief>.

David

[1] Just at the start of the last lap. Too late into the race to think "oh well" and go home without a care in the world, yet too soon into the lap to shoulder the bike for the remaining distance to the finish line....


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:26 am 
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possibly related:

my 9spd mavic mektronic drivetrain works very well with a 9spd shimano cassette.


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