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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:25 pm 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
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Check out this....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74418119@N ... 68400@N24/

What a beauty.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:40 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:30 pm
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Location: Leighton Buzzard
I've come to the conclusion that the builders of these bikes had a bit of free reign. Holdsworths, Raleighs, Carltons and Claud Butlers were still being hand made and finished. I can't help but think that designs and colours may have been 'tweaked' during the start and end of production.
Like my cheapo Claud. The colour is seventies but the design is late sixties,so it causes a bit of head scratching when you look at period catalogues.
I might be totally wrong though :?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:48 pm 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
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oldgit wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that the builders of these bikes had a bit of free reign. Holdsworths, Raleighs, Carltons and Claud Butlers were still being hand made and finished. I can't help but think that designs and colours may have been 'tweaked' during the start and end of production.
Like my cheapo Claud. The colour is seventies but the design is late sixties,so it causes a bit of head scratching when you look at period catalogues.
I might be totally wrong though :?


I think you've hit the nail on the head! that sums things up to the point.
Although things were a lot more commercial, esp with Raleigh really beginning to enforce their corporate will on carlton, there was still room for the Donovan's to exercise a fair degree of autonomy at their Worksop lair!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:28 pm 
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Spokesmann, Do you think I was looking at solid top eyes?

Still looks like the top of the seat stays are swaged.
As you probably have a Carlton with a similar wrapover, you may be able to tell. Carlton quantity produced raleighs with a similar seat cluster.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:53 am 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
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keithglos wrote:
Spokesmann, Do you think I was looking at solid top eyes?

Still looks like the top of the seat stays are swaged.
As you probably have a Carlton with a similar wrapover, you may be able to tell. Carlton quantity produced raleighs with a similar seat cluster.


Possibly, this feature sort of became a standard Carlton signature feature, yes they had used wrap overs before but by the very late 1960 and into the 70s the seat stays were more rounded over the top tube.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:35 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:58 pm
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Location: Nottingham
Spokesmann wrote:
After digging around Im now pretty sure this is a 1971 Contre La Montre. So my initial guess was wrong. In my view a top notch cycle, fantastic detailing and quality - still very much a Carlton... Nothing cheap or nasty about this machine.

I look forward to seeing more images - please! :)


Many thanks for your time. I will post up some better shots after the weekend. It is actually nicer than these dingy photos indicate. I will try and track down some transfers from that era/model to get it back to it's original state.

Regards.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:52 pm 
Dirt Disciple
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Location: macc
i have an identical carlton model to the op's which i acquired today.



it's been resprayed and been converted to fixed so has had a few bits and pieces removed (lugs for gear levers etc) and had a rack braising welded on. the fork is not original nor, i suspect, is much of the finishing kit or wheelset. be nice to get a definitive fix on what it started life as.

not ridden it yet, but looking forward to it. it's destined for some courier work i'm hoping to get.

it similarly has a F number.

my other retro bike is a beautiful 1951 claud butler olympic sprint. no question mark over that.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:09 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Sorry to say but it's not identical. The seat stay wrapover is very different.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:54 pm 
Dirt Disciple
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i see what you mean, but the lugs are the same and it may just be variance between hand-made frames built to the same design.

my wrap-over seems flatter than the op's.

from what i've seen elsewhere, carltons had different lugwork on each model, so i'd guess that op's bike and mine are actually the same, or at least were when they were made.

my model came from a clubmate's garage clear-out (and not bad for the cost of a friendly chat). a chap in his 60s now, he acquired the bike from it's original owner after his death in the '90s. it was re-enammelled although the frame was quite pitted.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:28 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 58
Location: New Zealand
I like the term swaged and you are absoultely right.

I have number of Carltons from the 70s. A green Corsa has the same swaged wrapover rear fork yet the white blue panelled frame has slash ended rear fork tops by the seat.

I also have Raleigh race bikes from that period that use the same swaged frame. I think it is a red royale.

I am in Dunedin NZ,. and had discussion with a young chap about his competition Carlton fixie that I thought was a fake.

The reason why was; I just got an old students 10 speed race bike from the 80s period from a flat being renovated. It was met blue all over. Under it however was this lovely intense black paint. The chainwheel was like a steel chromed sugino, very like my white 70s Carlton, but the fork crown was more chamfered /finished and not so squared edged. This frame had a wrapover but it was a form of lug maybe? It, the wrapover, was flat beaten tapered steel. On the broader sides of which was this classical broad pinstriping in circular motions and shapes, outlined in such a way to look like an elipse. Could be aftermarket but looked authentic as it was under all this blue paint.

The rebuilt Carlton Track framed Fixie I saw in Dunedin had a genuine Carlton badge but that could be applied later? However it had the same flat wrapover as this unknown framed bike I have got recently. Accoridngly I thought it may not be a genuine Carlton Track frame?

So I am not sure now( : However I don't think this bike I have is a Carlton but I could be mistaken. It has later bolt on pedals, not cotter pins.

I must keep scraping back the paint to see what is under it.

'OFISHL' was decal on a Worldrider from the same designation..maybe an ex student Leith Stream Racer with only half a handlebar.. we make em in Dunedin ( :


Does anyone have any finite views on the wrapover situation? Is it confined to a tublar swaging as a former member mentioned or did it later evolve into a flat wrap for economic reasons?

I will get a few pics of the frame posted later...


keithglos wrote:
Spokesmann, Do you think I was looking at solid top eyes?

Still looks like the top of the seat stays are swaged.
As you probably have a Carlton with a similar wrapover, you may be able to tell. Carlton quantity produced raleighs with a similar seat cluster.


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