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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:58 pm 
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I've been neglecting Campag gear recently having gone over to all-Shimano mid 90s and never looked back. However, cleaning up my old Super Record hoard for my TI Raleigh has given me the love back - well, that and seeong so many great builds on here!

So my next build is going to be based around 2000's era all-alloy Campag. Being a snob and a ponce ... erm, a gentleman of discerning taste, I mean ... I'm sure I'll aim for Record and Chorus where possible, but it occurred to me that I have no idea how the ranges have stacked up relative to each other since the mid 90s! Any pointers to the ranges over the years would be much appreciated. Velobase is a bit light on components from the 2000s

I lost out on this auction earlier:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0474884211

which may be a blessing in disguise as it gives me more time to find out a bit about Ergopower units. As I said above, I definitely want all-alloy, and I definitely went this 'second-generation' style as well - the current ones are really ugly, though I have no doubt they're super-comfortable, and the 1st gen are just too big.

I believe I'm right in saying that Record was never all-alloy in this style, right? Also I think Chorus was only all-alloy in 9-speed and went carbon for 10? So what would have been available in all-alloy 10-speed??

I gather the current sequence thereafter goes Athena - Centaur - Veloce but where did stuff like Mirage, Xenon and Daytona fit into the range. And what's this new QS business. I have pretty small hands so is this a good thing for me? I remember the old Mirage Ergos in the mid 90s as having a pretty hefty lever throw in order to change gear.

Finally, do you typically have issues mixing 9 and 10 speed components with Campag, eg 10sp crankset with 9sp cassette/Ergos, or 9sp Ergos w 10sp mech?

Thanks in advance for all input!


Cheers,
Gareth.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:19 am 
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garethrl wrote:
I definitely want all-alloy, and I definitely went this 'second-generation' style as well - the current ones are really ugly, though I have no doubt they're super-comfortable, and the 1st gen are just too big.

I believe I'm right in saying that Record was never all-alloy in this style, right? Also I think Chorus was only all-alloy in 9-speed and went carbon for 10? So what would have been available in all-alloy 10-speed??

I gather the current sequence thereafter goes Athena - Centaur - Veloce but where did stuff like Mirage, Xenon and Daytona fit into the range. And what's this new QS business. I have pretty small hands so is this a good thing for me? I remember the old Mirage Ergos in the mid 90s as having a pretty hefty lever throw in order to change gear.

Finally, do you typically have issues mixing 9 and 10 speed components with Campag, eg 10sp crankset with 9sp cassette/Ergos, or 9sp Ergos w 10sp mech?

Thanks in advance for all input!


Cheers,
Gareth.


Smaller Record ergo levers were only available in alloy in 1997. They're like rocking horse poo these days. Chorus levers stayed alloy for a few years and are mechanically identical - Record had some small Ti. parts but that's the only difference.

9 and 10 speed rear shifting/spacing is not compatible. You can put 10 speed cassettes on 9 speed hubs. And upgrade a 9-speed mech to 10-speed by fitting 10-speed pulleys, but that's as far as it goes. Chainsets, front mechs and shifters work OK in both.

Also around 2000, rear mechs were redesigned and cable pull ratio changed. Plenty of people are reporting success in mixing pre-and-post 2000 shifters and mechs though so not sure about the reality of it.

Best easily-available 10-speed shifters are Centaur. QS is quite recent (2006 I think) and has different cable pull ratio to previous front shifters. Again maybe it'll work but I've not tried it myself.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:28 am 
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as someone said, chainsets, front mechs generally arent an issue.

dont go for quickshift stuff. I believe they had an indexed front mech system, which doesnt talk to the other series. Also, they "lightened" the ergo action, the main criticism of campag being that its a bit heavy/agricultural (personally thats what I want). I know they did a record red label version, issued to pros that retained the stiff action. I'm not sure, but its possible that the front indexing didnt apply to chorus and record.

I am currently using 10 speed chorus ergos in all alloy, bought NOS around 2005, so they do exist out there. But theyre quite rare and sought after, as 10 spd campag can easily be mated (perfectly) to shimano 8 and 9 speed and still let tourists use a barbag, as cables are concealed, unlike shimano.

FWIW, I bought some of the latest ultrashift ergos last year (yeah the ugly ones). Theyre centaur and all alloy. In terms of lever comfort, theyre the best. However, campag have retained the lightweight action, which isnt as light and easy as shimano, yet not as positive as previous campag. Ive put my old chorus back on and the difference in shift is immense - so positive. Unfortunately, looks like for the future I'll be departing from campag - hate the skeleton brakes, the 2-part BB axle also.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:03 am 
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the last group record, all aluminum is 1998 and it is very rare

these are the Ergopower


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Gu6HN3pM3vY/TChrN ... en1998.JPG


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Thanks for the input guys. It sounds like my best bet is to keep looking for Chorus 9 or 10-speed all-alloy ones. I'll probably plan to avoid Quick Shift, at least until I can have a test ride to see if I like it.

Thinking about it though, is there any reason why I couldn't take a set of Chorus - or even Record - carbon 10 speed Ergopower units, and swap out the carbon brake and gear blades for alloy ones? That would give me the look I'm after and would be quicker and easier, albeit with some additional work.

Pigman - I daresay you mean that you'll be moving away from Campagnolo for future builds, but if the 10-speed Chorus all-alloy even become available then please drop me a PM.

Cheers,
Gareth.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:38 pm 
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FWIW you only need to avoid QS on Veloce and Centaur - Chorus and Record both retained the old ratchet. Regardless of the change in cable pull ratios about 2000 - I've never found a problem with cross-compatability.
Swapping lever blades is quite straight-forward - a pin-punch and hammer is all you need.
In terms of groupset sequence post 1987 - it used to be Mirage-Veloce-Athena-Chorus-Record. Athena was subsequently dropped and Daytona introduced, which was then re-named Centaur due to a trademark infringement. Xenon was added at the bottom and has been dropped recently. Athena has now been re-introduced above Centaur along with Super Record.
Finally, if you want all alloy in 10 speed, you could always swap the ratchet in a 9-speed Chorus - Mercian Cycles sell the parts.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:43 pm 
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garethrl wrote:

Thinking about it though, is there any reason why I couldn't take a set of Chorus - or even Record - carbon 10 speed Ergopower units, and swap out the carbon brake and gear blades for alloy ones? That would give me the look I'm after and would be quicker and easier, albeit with some additional work.


Good luck with that idea.

:P

Seriously though, it's a non-starter. As I wrote before,shifter internals (with same index system) are identical right down to Veloce so you'd be wasting your time. And it would still say the name of the cheaper group on the levers.

And finding Record levers as a spare part is even harder than finding the ergo-levers themselves. I've never seen any.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:44 pm 
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monty dog wrote:
Finally, if you want all alloy in 10 speed, you could always swap the ratchet in a 9-speed Chorus - Mercian Cycles sell the parts.


Sort of true - but pre-ergobrain shifters won't take the 10-speed ratchet. Already investigated that option with my 98 Record and Chorus levers some years ago.


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