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 Post subject: tubulars
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:57 pm
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Just remember that there are 2 types of tubular tyres being made, the conventional type with an inner tube and the outer sowed round it - to repair send it to Peter Burgin.
the secong type is the more modern way of making tubular tyres which really is a tubeless tyre, usually made by Tufo although I think Vittoria and Continental make a version too, - to repair get a large tin of tyre repair filler for a car and a presta adapter, fill the tub and ride off unless you have a huge cut, will seal it up.
Tufo also make a'tubular clincher' that fits on a 700C rim and does not need gluing on.
Now thats another 'black' art especially for cyclo X riders as the wet gets under the tub.
and yes there is a great deal of difference between tubs and clinchers especially on cross.
Tubs can be run at 25/30 psi recommended pressure for clinchers is 60 psi so much more grip with tubs.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:52 pm 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
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Id love to see some images for comparison for all these tyre/tube/tub combinations... A picture is worth a thousand words and that.... :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:11 pm
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Now you're puzzling me. I have a set of knobbly clinchers that say inflate to 30 - 60psi. OK so 30 isn't 25, but it's not 60 either.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:32 am 
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I only ever rode on tubs a few times, seemed okay but not anything of note to be fair in direct comparison with similar quality clinchers.

To compare to Fiks wheel a 32 spoke Open Pro wheel on Dura Ace hub with tyre (Maxxis Xenith Legere) & tube come in at 975g (Incl skewer) which though not as light is a darn sight easier to carry/change a tube or two (they're 45g each)
Even an older Mavic SSC front (still no Carbon or titanium) comes in at 945g all up.
I'd rather go with the sturdier rim and still have the same handling/speed as a very very good tubular. I normally stick with a Stelvio light tyre (rated 145psi) even though it is 55g heavier than the Maxxis they are a 23 & the Maxxis plus Vittoria Ultraspeeds are really for properly smooth tarmac. The ultraspeeds go up to 160 anyhow.

So sell the tubs on & stick with clinchers IMHO, makes for a far easier life.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:43 pm
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tonyf39 wrote:
So sell the tubs on & stick with clinchers IMHO, makes for a far easier life.


The tubs are Mavic Module E2s - are they any good ? Do you think they may be of interest to anyone ?

I've another pair of tubs - I can't tell what make they are; if there is no sticker on them, is there any way to make an identification ? All I can tell, is that they have Suzue hubs. They came with a 70s time trialling bike that I bought a few years ago; it had a 52/48 Sugino 3 - bolt crankset which I've read is "used for half step gearing". What is half step gearing ? (I've still got this crankset - if it is any use to anyone).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
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Quote:
tonyf39
Even an older Mavic SSC front (still no Carbon or titanium) comes in at 945g all up.


My mavic "blue" SSC rims are about 13 ounces each (retro weighing system)
Used to race on 8 ounce Scheeren rims.
Weight is not the only consideration here. Vulcanised tyres can never feel like the same weight of fine silk open sided tubulars with hand mounted treads. Less internal friction. I used to compare the effect to getting as close to riding on a solid block of air as possible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Location: Surrey
Best tub/sprint combo I ever rode were Clement No. 1 Seta Extra on Mavic CX18 rims, 24f/28r

Yes, the CX 18 was made for 18mm tyres and the Clements were about 22/23mm but I found this to be a far better ride than the standard Wolber 18mm cotton tyre that everyone else was using at that time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:09 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
I've recently acquired a Dourdoigne Grand Prix de Nations Silk on a Mavic hub/Assos aero rim/bladed spoke front wheel. Can't wait to put 120+ in it and hammer it down a smooth road! Probably need ear plugs. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:31 am
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Location: London
Mavic SSC rims and also GP4 are heavyweights at 400g! ( I don't know what an ounce is).

Modern wheels with wired-on rims save weight with lighter hubs and spokes but then the rims and tyres are heavier. I reckon the lighter and more supple tub and sprint rim combo gives a better ride but of course less practical to use.

Quote:
I've recently acquired a Dourdoigne Grand Prix de Nations Silk on a Mavic hub/Assos aero rim/bladed spoke front wheel.


Even the name sounds good, but I don't like the look of aero rims. Some of my stash:

Image
The Dourdoignes are No 2 bis and No 3 bis, not silk though.

Dourdoigne label:
Image

"Service des Course"
Image


Quote:
Good looking tyres? They're tyres FFS. They're round and that's about it. And who really cares? They're for riding on, not looking at.

Furthermore most people, even cyclists, couldn't spot the difference between a clincher and a tubular at a range of more than a few feet.


Most people, including most cyclist, would say the same "who cares what a bike and its parts look like", so what? I would guess most people on the forum do care about aesthetics. To my eyes, tyres and rims make a huge difference to how a bike looks. Many photos of older bikes on the web really look out of place with their all black or multi-coloured tyres and deep section rims.

As already said, some people can tell the difference. It's very easy to see the difference between a typical modern clincher tyre with black sidewalls and coloured tread, and a classic traditional tub with amber sidewalls and black tread. Of course a lot of tubs now have the same black sidewalls and colours as clinchers tyres, so you have go close up and see the edge of the base tape to tell it's a tub.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:27 pm 
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Location: Surrey
My mate had some Dourdoignes but they were orange with blue labels - sounded great. He won the RTTC Junior BBAR on them in 1968. 8)


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