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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:05 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:11 pm
Posts: 20
The serial is fairly indistinct and not very nicely applied

I make it out to be 8241 and then 3 on the other side of the cable guide. The first character could be a 6.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:22 pm
Posts: 1994
Location: North Ayrshire
hi,

i am certain that your frame is not a raleigh i'm afraid. the so called "shot in" or "fastback" seat stays that raleigh offered are different in style to yours - all the raleighs i ever saw always had the seat binder bolt pass straight through the top of the stays in an "all in one" arrangement. the top of your stays, as neatly designed and made as it is has the bolt entirely separate from the tops of the seat stays.
anything from the raleigh lightweight division had the code SB ---- stamped on the bottom bracket shell and raleigh also used plastic cable guide riveted on the underside of the bottom bracket, not the brazed type yours feature.

nevertheless, whatever it is yours is a lovely old frame indeed!

ps is this a british frame? those stays look awfully like bob jackson's fabulous handywork!

rusty


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:21 pm
Posts: 5785
Location: Lost in Translation
rusty bodie wrote:
the so called "shot in" or "fastback" seat stays that raleigh offered are different in style to yours - all the raleighs i ever saw always had the seat binder bolt pass straight through the top of the stays in an "all in one" arrangement.

Raleigh Professionals of the early-mid seventies used a similar seatstay arrangement, like this tasty example currently on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0423819830

However, the stays on the Raleigh are attached to an extension of the seat lug, rather than meeting the seat tube directly below the lug as on ke35's frame.

I agree that it's a nice frame, and not a Raleigh.

I think vertical dropouts would have been quite unusual on a British frame of that age.

ke35:

Is the bottom bracket BSC threaded?

Is that a fine crack I can see running from the bottom of the seat slot around the lower edge of the seat lug?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:28 am
Posts: 6
Location: London
garethrl wrote:
Thanks for all the detailed info guys - now I'm going to further confuse the situation with some more info of my own!

The frame number is SB5817, which makes it a 1983 build. The frame decal says 753R while the forks just say 753 - though the frame decal says "Guaranteed built with Reynolds 753R Fork Blades, Stays and Butted Tubes". Frame weight is 1690g while the forks are about 660g! So I think it's clearly all 753! Not at all shabby for a 56x57cm frame.

The frame tube ODs don't tally with the above info though. The top tube is 26.2mm, down tube is 28.2mm and the seat tube is 28.6mm all the way down. The ID of the seat tube comes out at 27.0mm no matter how many times I measure it, though my caliper only goes about 1cm down into the seat tube and I can insert my 27.0mm post about 4cm in. I'll pick up a 26.8mm post to experiment, and as a placeholder.

So here's a few pics to show the general condition and some detail. I left the frame at my car mechanic's place for about a week so that he could mix some paint up, and it looks like he's made a really good match. The next step is to get the fixed cup out and clean as much rust off the bare metal as I can. Then prime it with a light shade of Hammerite, and put a few layers of customised Nissan Red on it. Once I've touched up the paint I'll build it with a mixture of Record and Super Record, with Cinelli up front, and a Rolls to top it off. I need to replace the Super Champion Arc en Ciel on the F wheel after I trashed it last week, but I have a pair of Record du Monde on the way from Denmark. The plan is to ride it in the retro Ronde van Vlaanderen next year.

Don't hold your breath for progress on this one, but I'll get there ...

Cheers,
Gareth.
I'd rethink the rims if you plan on riding the Ronde. Recorde du Monde rims are somewhat delicate for Flanders. GP4 or SSC rims are far better suited to pave.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:40 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:11 pm
Posts: 20
One reason I considered it being a Raleigh is the lugs with the triangle cut out - I have seen these on Raleighs, and Concorde / Ciocc. So far no one has identified them.

I have an SB frame also and I hope to get this one built up soon so I can compare the 2.

This frame was bought in the UK, but that doesn't mean too much.


Is the bottom bracket BSC threaded?

I struggled with this and a British thread went in and is tight, but was loose to begin with.

The camera is a strange thing. It highlights some areas better than seeing it naturally - the serial number is a good example

Is that a fine crack I can see running from the bottom of the seat slot around the lower edge of the seat lug? I have looked closely and I don't think so but really the paint needs to come off to see it properly.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 961
Location: Brussels
It was measured with a Vernier caliper - sorry if that wasn't clear. The pointt was that the seat tube measured 27.0mm at the cluster, but only to a depth of 2cm owing to the length of the caliper jaws. I could insert the 27.0mm post to about the bottom of the cluster lug, but no further.

That led me to speculate that the seat tube might actually be a 28.6mm one that had been splayed out a bit by a previous owner. I bought a 26.8mm post to see, and it inserted just fine, pretty snug, and tightened up just so. So it looks as though it is indeed the smaller size.

I also managed to get the fixed cup out last week, so now I have to make time to get going on the paint. I'm rapidly running out of excuses ...

bikemeister2000 wrote:
Quote:
Hi folks,
I'm finally (but still slowly!) getting round to building a TI Team replica with the 753 fastback frame I bought last year. I'm having trouble with the seatpost though! I was told that the seat tube was 27.0mm and when it arrived I measured it with a caliper and it read 27.0. All good, so I bought a nice DuraAce post - it's stamped 27.0 on the shaft, and measures 27.0 with the same caliper - but I can't inset it more than ~3cm into the frame! It doesn't clear the minimum insertion level, and just about gets past the bottom of the slot in the seat tube.

What's going on here? Is it possible that the frame is 26.8mm but has been slightly flared out at the top. What size post do I need?? The frame is an SB stamped one from the early 80s, so what would the norm have been back then?


I would be inclined to get a vernier caliper and measure the internal diameter, simples :wink:

Here's one for under a fiver.
http://www.mandp.co.uk/productinfo/5296 ... ue-Vernier

Once you have done that you will know what size seat post you require.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 961
Location: Brussels
I agree with you on the rims, and will probably look for a second pair that are a bit more robust for general riding. Something like GP4s or SSCs, as you suggest. In fact, I'm not convinced that this will be the right bike for the retro Ronde once finished, I'm thinking more in terms of the Columbus SL Merckx by now ...

The Record du Monde rims arrived from DK late last week, 2x330g of super-shiny silver NOS goodness. They'll look quite splendid once built onto the large flange Record hubs with DT Swiss pokes. I had originally planned to leave the Arc-en-Ciel on the rear, but the finish has dulled with tim and it would be a shame to 'mis-match' it with the NOS front. I'll change them both and keep the A-e-C as a spare/tub stretcher.

Cheers, Gareth.

ultimobici wrote:
garethrl wrote:
Thanks for all the detailed info guys - now I'm going to further confuse the situation with some more info of my own!

The frame number is SB5817, which makes it a 1983 build. The frame decal says 753R while the forks just say 753 - though the frame decal says "Guaranteed built with Reynolds 753R Fork Blades, Stays and Butted Tubes". Frame weight is 1690g while the forks are about 660g! So I think it's clearly all 753! Not at all shabby for a 56x57cm frame.

The frame tube ODs don't tally with the above info though. The top tube is 26.2mm, down tube is 28.2mm and the seat tube is 28.6mm all the way down. The ID of the seat tube comes out at 27.0mm no matter how many times I measure it, though my caliper only goes about 1cm down into the seat tube and I can insert my 27.0mm post about 4cm in. I'll pick up a 26.8mm post to experiment, and as a placeholder.

So here's a few pics to show the general condition and some detail. I left the frame at my car mechanic's place for about a week so that he could mix some paint up, and it looks like he's made a really good match. The next step is to get the fixed cup out and clean as much rust off the bare metal as I can. Then prime it with a light shade of Hammerite, and put a few layers of customised Nissan Red on it. Once I've touched up the paint I'll build it with a mixture of Record and Super Record, with Cinelli up front, and a Rolls to top it off. I need to replace the Super Champion Arc en Ciel on the F wheel after I trashed it last week, but I have a pair of Record du Monde on the way from Denmark. The plan is to ride it in the retro Ronde van Vlaanderen next year.

Don't hold your breath for progress on this one, but I'll get there ...

Cheers,
Gareth.
I'd rethink the rims if you plan on riding the Ronde. Recorde du Monde rims are somewhat delicate for Flanders. GP4 or SSC rims are far better suited to pave.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:22 pm
Posts: 1994
Location: North Ayrshire
yup or a nice pair of campagnolo record strada or record pave rims would do the business or indeed the ambrosio metamorphosis rims - had mine for some time now, just got them rebuilt and still perfectly round in spite of my near 14 stone ass on top of them!!

:shock:


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