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 Post subject: Claud Butler #862567
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:30 pm
Posts: 9
Hi, newbie Julian here.

I’ve read and read posts here… I’m hoping that you can please help me identify the model of my Claud Butler?
I’m stuck, I just don’t know enough, I hope that your expertise can unstick me.

A little background.

The bike was my Dads.

I remember it as a kid, hanging in the garage (late 60s-70s).

I also remember it was different back then; it was grey, had rusty steel wheels and spokes, derailleur gears and I think I remember some little frame brackets with pulleys.. for the cables to the conventional rim brakes.
It also had drop handle bars with blue fabric tape on them and a narrow brown Brooks saddle.
It was also fitted with an alloy pump (or could have been white).
I have a vague memory of my Dad telling me how as a school boy he used to ride really close to the back of busses with his front wheel almost touching the rear bumper and when the bus braked his wheel would rub on the bumper and slow him down too.
If he left more of a gap then he would sort of crash into the back of the bus.
He would have lived in West Sussex then, in Yapton, 3 miles North east of Bognor Regis.
Of note, this area is a coastal plain and so flat and good for cycling. He bemoaned moving to hilly Dorset where the cycling was a pain.
In 1948 he was working for Sir Alan Cobham at Tarrant Rushton airfield (where he and my Mum lived in a Nissen Hut with my eldest brother who was about 3 at the time).
Dad was born in mid-August 1923.

This little bit of history goes to explain why I think that this might be the bicycle that my day had as a school boy.
(Increasingly I think this is unlikely. It could also be something he purchased much later, perhaps in the 50s).

Anyway, I think it might be a “Continental” model, not sure which one.


Things I do know:
It is a 22” frame with 41” wheelbase and 26” wheels. Inflator mounts are 16” between cones.
Handle bar stem has AVA stamped on it with a 2.1/2” extension. The stem top clamp seems to be the older style.

The frame lugs seem to be “CB Continental” style.
The rear fork is of the “CB Forward serrated” style.
The mudguard mounts can be seen in the picture are some way up the forks and have slots.
The frame has an in-build chain oiler (nozzle tap missing).
Missing paint all over the frame reveals it seems to have been originally entirely chrome plated.

The chrome forks are round section and have a sharp curve at the bottom.
The have mudguard mounts shown in the picture and a mount for a front light.

Seat post is new, previous alloy one fractured. The diameter is 26.8?
Pedals are BOA and have 55w stamped on the inner ends.

Finally, the frame number is 862567.
June 1948?

rw Bamberg says he might have a 1948 “Track Iron”… serial number 862426.
Swanny: his similar model: 872689 July 38/48
Peachy has frame number: 82595
Losgaintir: 841852

Any help would be gratefully received


Last edited by Julian on Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Claud Butler #862567
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:30 pm
Posts: 9
The frame number and qty (2567) seems to place it either June 1948 or June 1938- both would work.


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 Post subject: Re: Claud Butler #862567
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:56 pm 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 5145
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
Hello Julian, interesting history, unfortunately I can’t see any photos, just the word “image” in a box


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 Post subject: Re: Claud Butler #862567
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:16 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5750
Location: West Yorkshire
Peachy! wrote:
Hello Julian, interesting history, unfortunately I can’t see any photos, just the word “image” in a box


I get a 'No Entry' sign!?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:30 pm
Posts: 9
Thanks for letting me know.
Hmm, I'll try again with the pictures


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:30 pm
Posts: 9
Does this picture work for you?
XRemovedX


Last edited by Julian on Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:29 pm 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 5145
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
Julian wrote:
Does this picture work for you?
Image


Nope,

Try just posting your photos straight from your phone rather than using Google. Or email me Chris.peachypm@btinternet.com


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 Post subject: Re: Claud Butler #862567
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:55 pm 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
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Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
Here we go....

My money is on 1938 as these Continental lugs were cast in 1938 and in 1948 would have been bi-laminates... these look like cast to me.


Attachments:
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F52F9161-2EF0-40A7-9A61-CDC9A0F54A40.jpeg
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90AD85FD-373B-4529-938F-E3EC29051A3E.jpeg
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EEBBAE2C-374E-4547-8511-7A7ED2BA2866.jpeg
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0CF961B7-8248-496E-BD2E-E4BDE7D9609C.jpeg
0CF961B7-8248-496E-BD2E-E4BDE7D9609C.jpeg [ 408.44 KiB | Viewed 334 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Claud Butler #862567
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:02 pm 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 5145
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
Just spotted the seat tube BB oiler port (I think that’s what it is) I’m thinking Tour de’Angleterre...

A very serious machine.


Attachments:
F8979995-2BC7-4AE8-8BB2-7CB7F3C1336A.jpeg
F8979995-2BC7-4AE8-8BB2-7CB7F3C1336A.jpeg [ 807.16 KiB | Viewed 332 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Claud Butler #862567
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:30 pm
Posts: 9
Thanks for posting the photo's Peachy, you are on the ball.

1938?
The Lugs were used on the Anglo Continental, Tour d'Angleterre "etc"
Certainly the rear fork looks like the "CB" Forward Opening Fork End.
Has it got the shallow head clip? It looks different to the drawing to me, and mine does not have the oil nipple.
It has the CB Continental Chain oiler- used on "some" of the Continental models.

I had thought it might be an Anglo Continental model. But the forks looked wrong. However I see I made mistake and was looking at the 1936 catalogue. In the 1938 catalogue the Anglo Continental has the type of forks on my bike. It has a 40.3/4" wheelbase. That is quite possible as I took a quick measurement between the wheel axels without considering the chain adjustment.
What is a "Vroomen" shallow pattern crown design to the forks? -Sorry for asking stupid questions.
BOA pedals were an option.
It says the frame is 20.1/2 or 21.1/2.... is that the seat post length... from the center of the BB to the center line of the cross bar?

Sorry for all the questions.


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