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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:03 am 
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Not sure I can help with RT numbers after 1975. The ones collected are mainly 1975 shop built with a few in 74 and a couple of possible others earlier than that. Holdsworth then changed to the six digit number mainly in the same location as yours and always with a leading zero.

They come up on Ebay regularly often with numbers, but there is only one currently listed as 70's. That seems to have an earlier number than yours if he used sequential numbering. There is an other listed as 80's with the same lug work as yours. I've not seen them with the number in this location before so maybe he moved it latter? The ones I have seen are under the BB, like the attached.

Sorry not to be much help, but I am only collecting the ones that fit with Holdsworth.

Attachment:
rt.JPG
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:36 pm 
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swin1's number looks like a Holdsworthy factory number rather than a shop number. Bear in mind the possibility that any 'Holdsworth' frame that was returned to the shop for a repaint after 1975 is likely to have become a 'Roy Thame' in the process? I would assume they were obliged not to be using 'Holdsworth' decals any more?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:56 pm 
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Yes, a possibility, can we identify a suitable model to be a Holdswoth? I was looking at the Head and seat lugs, all very similar to the Pro SL with the way the seat stays are attached. Its clearly not one but leads me to think this is an early 80's build. That's always assuming someone didn't forget to put the leading zero on.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:10 pm 
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31281 .. What year would that be if it was an Holdsworthy number?

After a closer look, the frame is lacking the domed chainstay and fork blade ends you'd expect on a 531 frame- although some of the other bits look '1980s Holdsworthy'.. The forks and stays could have been modified. Also I'm not sure whether either Holdsworthy or Roy Thame went in for those 'card suit' fork tangs..?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:49 pm 
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If Holdsworth 5 Digit number it would be early 67, if the zero was missing it would be ~1980. That would fit a Pro SL, but that's not what this is I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:40 am 
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Thanks for the additional input. My gut is that it's 1981 frame, but logic it could be earlier, or have I got that the other way around? I enquired with the seller on ebay the date code of his frame. See the pics below. Many thanks, Andrew.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:23 pm 
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Thanks for the number detail, I did actually have that one, but not any picture of the BB number. I has had a face lift since I last saw it! Yes that a shop number from 1975 and all those number so far have been RT's.

Well you have evidence for the use of those rear stays back in 1975, I would say yours is an early'ish RT number post 75. Its difficult to know if the numbers are sequential or if he started at zero, I've not seen any yet less than 5 digits. Also how many could he build in a year? Yours is double the other 70's number above so could be early 80's who knows?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:20 pm 
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That Roy Thame above looks like the Roy Thame's I came across in the late 70's. Italianate seat stays, vertical dropouts and quite a shallow rake to the forks like Mercian but not as "straight" as Aende. Wouldn't look out of place on the A1 Boro' course :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:10 pm 
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Somewhere upthread I mooted the possibility that Roy Thame numbers might have retained the initial '75' digits beyond 1975.

Quote:
I enquired with the seller on ebay the date code of his frame.

Are you saying that the person who owns the silver machine sold you the other Roy Thame you posted originally? They do seem to share almost every detail, apart from the long Campag. ends with mudguard eyes on your frame, and the different fork bend. It'd be interesting to see your frame with wheels in, to get a better idea of its geometry- whether it is as tight as the silver one above?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:03 pm 
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Just in case its of use - I've recently picked up a Claud Butler Electron along with a receipt of sale from 1975.

Frame number is 67857

Image

Receipt of sale - dated 02 Sept 75

Image

The bike - its the 531 tubing model - only produced in 1975?:

Image

Thought it might be a good marker for the records, seeing as it comes with a dated record of sale.


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