Wide tyres - another great modern bike idea?

Depends on the gradient as well, how much extra energy/power does it take to carry 2x30 grams of tyre up a hill compared to how much energy/power you save by having less rolling resistance. Not forgetting the increased drag from a larger tyre, unless your tyre "matches" the rims profile. Then you save energy/power.

The larger tyre (with a suitable rim) will also descend better.

Oh, just to reiterate, national HC is a complete irrelevance. In the last half dozen or so years you've had modified track bikes, geared road bikes (1x and 2x) and low profiles finishing at the pointy end of the nats.

It's *far* too course specific to be relevant.

Having a look at https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/ is instructive.
Wider tyres have less rolling resistance, to a point. Note that there are break points where tyre construction changes which negates this. If you are FAST then aero effects may be more significant - likewise if your riding is like mine (lots of rough chipseal) then a wider tyre may be even more advantaged.

Certainly riding 28c Michelin Pro4 Endurance has been a revelation: faster AND more comfortable than 23c Conti Gatorskins. 23c GP4000Sii remains faster (1 min on my 18 mile regular loop) at the expense of fragility. While not as smooth as the 28c Michelins, they ride noticeably less roughly than 23c Gators at the same tyre pressures.
I switched to Schwalbe Marathon Greenguard 26x1.75 on the tourer and had the same feeling compared to 26x1.3. However swapping up to Marathon Supreme 26x2.0 was a disappointment (later borne out by rolling resistance figures).

Rod_Saetan":3nlrta7q said:

Yes and no. A sprint up a hill is not the same as a day climbing a mountain, what a wider tyre also gives you with increased comfort is an energy saving, you aren't getting beaten up by the road as much so you will have saved more energy to use at the top of the climb.

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And you have to come down them too, so want grip and something that resists pich punctures.

I often mention the old Vittoria Corsa tub (the love of my racing life BITD) and this and the clement crit was the staple tub for road racing. Both had a profile similar to todays 25/28 mms. Don't remember the pros using 19mm silks for anything other than flat tests.

Ive left the 23mms behind and am currently on 25's, thinking of going to 28mm GP4000s on the summer bike. Ive done no measurements, but the abandonment of 23's doesn't feel slower

hamster":28xup4mn said:

Certainly riding 28c Michelin Pro4 Endurance has been a revelation: faster AND more comfortable than 23c Conti Gatorskins. 23c GP4000Sii remains faster (1 min on my 18 mile regular loop) at the expense of fragility. While not as smooth as the 28c Michelins, they ride noticeably less roughly than 23c Gators at the same tyre pressures.
I switched to Schwalbe Marathon Greenguard 26x1.75 on the tourer and had the same feeling compared to 26x1.3. However swapping up to Marathon Supreme 26x2.0 was a disappointment (later borne out by rolling resistance figures).

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TBH, you've got too many tyre types on each bike there to make any sort of comparison!

28 Pro4 to 23 gatorskin to 23 gp4000sII are all massively different in construction and performance. You'd struggle to work out where the gain actually was!

Same with the tourer tyres......

Speed (based on time averages of same loop over years):
23c Gatorskin > 28c Pro4 E > 23c GP4000sii

Marathon Supreme 2.0 > Hutchinson Top Slick 1.3" > Marathon Greenguard 1.75"

Geddit? The whole point I was making was that construction was a factor and wider = faster is not a reliable guide...nor narrower + faster either.

Pro4 Endurance and Marathon Greenguard score particularly well against anything comparable.

That's not the discussion though, "better tyres are faster" isn't news.

Size is the discussion.

Re:

Since you're not racing anymore, sit back relax with the cool amberwalls. Go even wider*, enjoy the comfort and have a look around.
Time is not a thing anymore. Other than to get to breakfast before 11:00 and afternoon coffee after 2:00.
Relax and enjoy.
Speed is irrelevant now.



*until it breaks the retro/vintage bike styling, then stop it !

25s are not what they are talking about when wide tyres are discussed. Minus labels I doubt many people could even eyeball a size difference between 23 and 25mm Veloflex.

It's more in the realm of stuff like Challenge Strada Bianca 30s and even bigger that you get into full radavist kind of territory.

I tried a similar 'back to back' comparison between Schwable one's 23C which has been my preferred tyre and Conti GP4000 II's 25C. Initially I was sceptical and liked the narrow tyre look, the bike also felt odd at first on the 25's. I have to say I am now convinced and will be swapping over to 25c's. After a while the bike seemed to be going faster and I am getting used to the wide look so i tried a back to back test and a comparison with my other bikes over the Easter w/c. I have also been looking at the rolling resistance testing in the attached link, the key seems to be run the wide tyres at the same pressure as the narrow. I run all mine at 120psi. https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

The attached graph comes form my strava account for repeated runs over a 8.4 mile segment of flat straight roads. I hope this makes sense, the w/e runs started with the tagged ride on 19/4, weather conditions good and light wind. The previous ride was also the road bike on 25,s on a different day and the first two were on a fixie on 23c's. So I have three good runs on 25c tyres. The next two runs were the Fixie followed by two on the lo-pro all on 23c's. The PR highlighted in the middle and was on the Lo-Pro and 23c Conti GP TT tyres, the best clinchers I can find on the resistance charts. Can't fit 25c to this bike, not enough room!

After that comes the road bike again on 23c tyres on similar wheels. The first run was ok and gives a good comparison to the 3 25c runs previously, but the second run I trashed the wheel bearings, so had to back out. That’s the lowest point just off the centre of graph. Then come the two single back to back runs on the road bike in a fairly strong wind. First the 23c, and new bearing, then swap wheels and go out on the 25's. I think in both trials you can see a benefit with the 25c's.

So the last four runs are also interesting. I removed the 27" wheels from my Holdsworth Monsoon along with mudguards and front changer and put on the 700x23c wheels I did the tests with. This removed about 1Kg in weight. What a difference, the bike is now 10Kg and runs good folding tyres rather than the 1 1/8" Conti Ultra sport non-folding. Nearly beat the Lo-Pro first run out, but I think that was a fit of enthusiasm due the change I felt as I can't repeat it. The other runs are similar to the road bike, suggesting it would be quicker on 25's which i will try once these tyre are worn out. I did take it on a club run and that confirmed it is not quite as quick as the road bike, but much better than on 27"

My conclusions, for what its worth, is use modern folding tyres and 25c are marginally, but noticeably, better than 23's at the same pressure. They would look better on old bikes too.