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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:48 pm
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Can anyone help to identify my late fathers old Holdsworth(?) frame model and age?

My father bought the frame second hand in the late 1960’s / early 1970’s and had it stove enamled and fitted with custom made wheels and Campagnolo/Huret parts.

My dad was 6’+, so the game is quite large - 24” (down tube), 23.5 (top tube).

The stamped serial no. is 67138K appears on the bottom bracket and front forks. The BB also has '3' stamped on the opposite side. I haven't been able to match this number to any database that might shed light on its origins.

The lugs are quite distinctive with long spearpoints and a cut-away ‘D’ profile. The wrap over stays and the traces of chrome beneath the paintwork on the drop-outs and bottom portions of the rear stays and front forks made me suspected it might be a Mistral/Super Mistral. However, when I've compared the profile of the lugs and the rear centre-pull brake hanger it doesn't appear to match the standard format. Might this be a 1960's customised 'shop frame' ?

The bike was decommisioned by my father in the early 80's and stored it in the garage. I came across the frame and various boxes of parts after his recent death and would like to see if I could resore it to its former glory. Any advice about its possible origins greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Posts: 1038
There's at least two multi-page threads in this section where we speculate about the Holdsworth(y) numbering system(s)

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... p;t=362572
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... p;t=368732

Your Dad's frame seems to bear all the hallmarks of a shop-built frame- chunky wrapover, allen key seat lug bolt.
'K' is supposed to denote a frame built for stock, as opposed to a custom frame commissioned by an individual.
Nothing wrong with that, though. I have a 'K' frame myself.
The Mistral/Super Mistral are (Holdsworthy) factory frames. Evidence suggests yours is a (Holdsworth) shop frame in the same league.

67138 should be the 138th frame built in 1967. So probably quite late in '67.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Location: Cumbria
Is it my eyesight or is it only the drive side rear dropot that has a mudguard eye?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:48 pm
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Midlife wrote:
Is it my eyesight or is it only the drive side rear dropot that has a mudguard eye?

Yes, there's only one lug, on the drive side. No obvious evidence of there ever being one on the other drop-out. My Dad certainly didn't have mudguards fitted.

I found a good account of 'K' series bikes from this era: (true adventures of the retro grupetto: holdsworth italia) by Norman Kilgariff (13/7/2004) "Italias were made for stock and so would not be made by Reg. TCQ, CR or Alec Bird would do them and maybe elsewhere. Stock serials have a K added at the end. The lovely wee WFH decal on the seatstay topeyes also has appeared on a Stock track frame".


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Location: East Yorkshire
Seriously handsome frame..... looking forward to seeing how you progress.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:46 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
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Location: West Yorkshire
Never knowingly seen a back brake cable stop 'bridge' like that before. I'm presuming that perhaps the slot is for a quick release of some sort?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:48 pm
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I believe the attached image shows the fixing. I might need to replace this as the thread on the back nut is iffy. I'm guessing its part of the Universal 61 centre pull kit?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Location: Cotswolds
Is that the quick release from Weinmann center pull front hanger?
Looks like its cut off from the part that goes on the head set, and brazed on.

Keith


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:48 pm
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The rear hanger is an original brazed on feature of the frameset. I'm still going through boxes of parts & this appears to be the right fixing, but as I haven't unearthed the (Universal 61) brakes yet, I can't test it


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:38 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
I agree I'd call this a definite shop built stock late 1967 frame. As stated, in letter from Kilgariff to Dave Benson re his Italia, stock (K) frames were usually built by builders other than Collard. Also per Kilgariff site for 1967 - "...Italia tourers will also be built, generally for stock". Wonder how your Dad used frame - touring, racing, both?

Hard to fathom why frame originally would have only had a single rear dropout fender eyelet -strongly suggests must have been +/-alteration(s) at some point.

Re lugs: it would be my observation from looking at shop built frames that lugs used for particular models were fairly random as opposed to factory built models that had a consistent lug type.

Doug


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