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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:26 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:59 pm
Posts: 114
Thanks for the suggestions Woz, I've got a Dremel here, might be a plan if necessary as it looks thick enough.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:30 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:46 pm
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Convert to SS


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:25 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:20 am
Posts: 108
Location: Cheshire
I had this problem....

As far as I can make out....(with my limited retro modern build experience) this is one of the issues that is common in retro - modern builds.
I did warn you there would be more challenges ahead! ;)

I ended up drilling and tapping.
If you have a drill and tap... it's a doddle. Tap sets are cheap as a packet of Fish and Chips.

Also used spacers but that was more about chain rub on the rearstay. Those alone would not have solved my problem with clearance anyways.
Am doing an update on my Gillott build soon...but here are some photos to illustrate how I got around that particular problem.

Attachment:
hanger rentention.jpg
hanger rentention.jpg [ 133.61 KiB | Viewed 165 times ]


Note the drilled and tapped hole with the hangar retention bolt in place.
It looks closer to the cut-out than it actually is, around a 2mm clearance between the drilled and tapped hole and the dropout cutaway.
Sure...it puts the wheel back an odd mm but it works fine.

Post assembly. You see how tight things are around there...and that's with an additional 1.5mm of spacers on each hub.
If you use spacers....consider placing them on both sides to maintain your dish/alignment.

Attachment:
no retaining cap.jpg
no retaining cap.jpg [ 167.33 KiB | Viewed 165 times ]


And as a final piece...check your hangar alignment after you finish everything up.

It's an absolute doddle if you have a spare wheel to hand that is threaded. Screw it into the derailleur hole, thereafter it acts as an alignmnet guage and with a small effort a re-alignment tool! See below. Yes it looks odd but it works an absolute treat and is a must check prior to setting up the indexing etc. etc.
Attachment:
hangar alignment.jpg
hangar alignment.jpg [ 171.5 KiB | Viewed 165 times ]


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:47 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:20 am
Posts: 108
Location: Cheshire
On the topic of spacers.....Shims are the correct term I beleive...
(Did I have an anally retentive moment then??? I think I did!)

I bought a selection of 1mm and 0.5mm shims at the appropiate ID & OD.....
and placed them within the assembly rather than on the outside.

Looking at your solution....I'm not convinced it's an effective long term solution.
(I may be wrong) In addition you can fine tune with internal shims and get your spacing as you require. This may be crucial given other factors such as chain clearance and 'stuff'...Things get damned tight with clearances in other places too.

I'm currently getting away with a rear spacing of 132.5mm.....which leaves everything at the edge of tolerence before you go for a 135mm hub (i went 1.5mm on drive side and 1mm on non drive)....didn't bother re-coldsetting for an extra 2.5mm...
(more on that in my update)

Here's some photos on where I put the shims.
You WILL need to take your hubs to bits (a little bit) for this...but not that much.

Non drive side shim spacer really easy on the novatec hubs. I had to purchase some 17mm cone spanners though! that was an arse!
Attachment:
non drive side shims.jpg
non drive side shims.jpg [ 167.87 KiB | Viewed 160 times ]


The drive side was an arse.... somewhere inside the freehub and behind the main seal is where the spacers live......here an extra 1.5mm of spacing went.

This way you manage to retain your serrated washers and contact points to the frame and avoid faff when removing the rear wheel. Which you will do a lot to clean it!
Attachment:
drive side shims.jpg
drive side shims.jpg [ 140.61 KiB | Viewed 160 times ]


'1952' frame.....'2016' 11 speed groupset... fun fun fun.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:15 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:20 am
Posts: 108
Location: Cheshire
I'm going to apoligise for hijacking your thread.....in advance but....something caught my eye in that last photo....

Attachment:
drive side shims.jpg
drive side shims.jpg [ 146.65 KiB | Viewed 157 times ]


yaaaay!
I'll feck off now that is out of my system!
;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:56 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:59 pm
Posts: 114
Wow Sand_Dune some pearls of wisdom there! Thanks so much for that.

Need a cup of tea and read it a few times to get the full jist but I love the idea of tapping a drilled hole in the dropouts, problem solved :)

I think I have a tap set and never used it, I shall dig the tools out and see if that's what I have.

Where theres a will, theres a way, very useful, thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:11 am 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:20 am
Posts: 108
Location: Cheshire
Have a cup of tea. leave it a few days...

someone else will chip in with advice...

always multiple ways to tackle any individual problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:32 pm 
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:31 am
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Location: North Kent Coast UK
Sand_Dune wrote:
Have a cup of tea. leave it a few days...

someone else will chip in with advice...

always multiple ways to tackle any individual problem.


Nope nothing new from me, having read through I was going to suggest drilling and tapping the hanger as well. It does make the frame non standard but is very effective.

A word of caution on spacers or shims on the axle though, you have to do the same to each side or you'll find the rim is sitting to one side of the brake calipers. Provided you haven't gone mad with the shimming pushing the rim centre way over to one side it's an easy fix if you're handy with a spoke key and understand the principles of wheel truing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:56 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:59 pm
Posts: 114
Thanks for that Devout I'll put the other washer on the other side n check n see how central it is :)


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:09 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 2092
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
Sand_Dune wrote:
Have a cup of tea. leave it a few days...

someone else will chip in with advice...

always multiple ways to tackle any individual problem.


Man-up and put a six speed corm-cob on it :-)


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