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What to do with the Stars & Stripes
Poll runs till Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:58 pm
Patch it up & push it on 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
100% Bells & Whistles Restoration 25%  25%  [ 4 ]
History preserving Retro-Mod 69%  69%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 16
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:14 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:31 am
Posts: 121
Location: North Kent Coast UK
Checking in to keep upto date with this one.

That's an amazing looking machine and a great story so whether it is or isn't one of Jack Heid's that's still quite the dilemma concerning how far to go with the finish and how to actually do it.

Half of me says restore it back to it's original glory and the other half says nooo just clean it up and keep the original detail. Either way I'm actually glad I'm not making that choice.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:39 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:21 pm
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Location: The Netherlands
See? I knew this would get interesting.

Racing Poeske Scherens and Arie van Vliet was really something. Those were the big guns, even towards the end of their careers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 416
Location: East Yorkshire
allenh wrote:
Checking in to keep upto date with this one.

That's an amazing looking machine and a great story so whether it is or isn't one of Jack Heid's that's still quite the dilemma concerning how far to go with the finish and how to actually do it.

Half of me says restore it back to it's original glory and the other half says nooo just clean it up and keep the original detail. Either way I'm actually glad I'm not making that choice.



It is, for now, safely hanging amongst my collection, but I do intended to very carefully break the bike down, immerse the parts in evapo-rust, then very, very carefully clean the frame and forks. Locally work with evapo-rust on the frame taking super care around the original transfers/decals. Ditch the Weinman brake (into the spares box) soak the saddle in brooks treatment. Then carefully re-build her. I will then consider selling her, possibly to a museum or club in the States. If no one wants her and she is to spend any future in the North of England I think I would need to investigate giving her a very light unobtrusive fine coat of lacquer, properly tested, just to protect her from any further oxidisation.
The same goes for the bright metal components, although I wouldn’t be afraid to get these re-chromed I imagine some purists might consider it a crime.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:01 pm 
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non-fixie wrote:
See? I knew this would get interesting.

Racing Poeske Scherens and Arie van Vliet was really something. Those were the big guns, even towards the end of their careers.


I've received more messages from the States, I'll compile and add any interesting musings (currently they just seem to be disagreeing amongst themselves).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:21 am 
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More photo's from America, these were posted by Ted Ernst on http://www.classicrendezvous.com/ Google group.


Here’s another shot of fixed on road / criterium races.

Bob, fork crown is original Durkopp plate with round blades.
Most track bikes had round blades , more said on banked tracks depending on gauge and diameter.

Same was true on HF vs SF hubs.
The big flange did make a stiffer wheel and perceptually a quicker acceleration in a jump.
That’s why the SF wheels were usually tied and soldered for the extra stiffness, especially on banked tracks.

As to weight, that would depend on steel VS aluminum and number and gauge of spokes, nipple length.
You wanted the stiffest wheel, HF hub plus tied & soldered.

I saw a few alloy wheels after spills that were actually broken in 6-7-8 “ sections because they were so stiff they just broke up into multiple pieces rather than bending or breaking in one spot.
No curbside repair available.

The race you’re seeing is the “B” class sprint, 1 mile on the Norwood Park Handicap race in 1950.
It was a mile almost circle, legend has it was used to test cars around turn of century (1900), all bult up residential on Chicago’s NW side since those early years.

Front rider is Buddy Campbell, Chicago, I think on Wastyn Paramount.
Second is Jack Boyle, Chicago, on a Sieber.
Third is Tom O’Rourke, Detroit, possibly on a Urago.

The race program was prelim category races and then a 10 mile handicap with 5 packs (groups).
Depending on race during that era, it was 4 or 5 packs, promoters choice, in handicap events.

At Norwood Park, first pack called limit pack, had a 2:15 head start and then down to the scratch pack.
On the one mile course, it meant that the limit guys actually came by the scratch pack before they started, going like hell!!
The scratch guys had to catch the limit men, pass them, shake them off, and try to catch them again in 10 miles to get in on the place prizes!!
Everybody else rode as hard as they could to try for place prizes.
The scratch guys would almost always get the time prizes but wanted both time and place, so, the race was on!
Dogmark, the pack just before the scratch men usually got nixed, hence the name, unless they were lucky enough to catch the front, stay away from scratch, or maybe hang with the scratch guys, if caught, and get a place prize, or maybe even a time prize, depending on scratch finishers and how many awards.
This provided motivation for riders and excitement for spectators.

In those years one scored points for upgrade in class, unless officials decided you were good to be upgraded regardless of points.

At that time I was in “C” category all of 1949, in 1950 I beat Ray Gasiorowski (Romic Cycles, Texas) formerly at Schwinn in Bike design engineering with Frank Brilando and Bill Jacoby.
It was the first race of 1950, a Category “B” event, and they made me Category 1, officials told my dad they let me slide in ’49 because I had fallen about 4/5 times in wild crashes.
I sat too close and $@&&% guys knocked themselves down , so I was invited to go over the top.
Learned to back off few inches and spills got much scarcer.

Jerseys were not quite the billboards of today.

Ted Ernst
Palos Verdes Estates
California USA


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:43 am
Posts: 128
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Ted Ernst also replied on 18 June with
Quote:
I raced against Jack many RPM’s ago.
He seemed to be just a little shorter than I was, but taller than Ted Smith.
The photo of the 1948 Olympic team shows Jack and Ted riding rollers aboard the ship going to London.
His bike appears to be no larger than 21” C-T.
I doubt it was Jack’s.
Perhaps it may have been made for a GI who raced in Europe and left behind or maybe built for a bike show to attract US customers.
It is fanciful and would be attention getting in anyone’s collection.
Ted Ernst


It is sure to pique the interest of the V-CC ME.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Glorious day, family all out and I’ve got a few hours to kill before the England/Sweden kick-off. Lets have a crack at stripping down the Yank……

First off, I need to dig out Dad’s spanners! When 13mm or ½” are both too small and 14mm & 9/16th are just a bit too loose, bring out the 1/4W (and other weired combinations that I’m pretty sure my father did tell me about, but I’d long dismissed….)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Location: East Yorkshire
Superb football match, patriotic duty complete, now on to what I really want to get on with.

I had already given all the bits and bats a good squirt with WD40 every few days for the past few weeks, so everything came off without too much of a fight. After close inspection one or two things probably won’t make it back on…. The bars, plain and simple, no stamps but bent and twisted all in the wrong directions, front brake was never going back on anyway, but its pretty bent up & knackered, rims also look shot too. :(
Everything else is looking good. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:40 pm 
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Location: East Yorkshire
NeilM wrote:
This thread just gets better and better.



Cheers Neil,
Something I did notice today whilst cleaning was the fork number; 14647 this doesn’t match with either the 931600 E which I’m assuming is the frame number and fabricators initial as I’m convinced this is a 1949 Path, (common thinking on pre 50’s CB’s is that the first number corolates with the last number of the year with the subsequent number being the month, so ‘49 & March, production no 1600) or the other erroneous numbers on the Chatter Lea bottom Bracket shell 10190 & 053 563
I’m not going to get hung up on what these numbers mean, but it does look like these forks might not be originally paired with this frame.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:49 am 
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Next step, bit of a gentle wash with some help from Muck-off in some of the heavily soiled places. I must say I am a bit disappointed in how much paint damage was under the dirty areas, I had hoped the muck had persevered some of the paint, unfortunately it looks like it just grabbed onto the areas that had already chipped & rusted badly.
Hey ho…the game is not over yet, first I needed to mask up the graphics, these will be worked around locally later. Then it’s a wrap with paper towel soaked in Evapo-rust then sealed in place with cling film. not exactly sure how long for, I'll just have to sneak a peek every now & then...

The bits and bats went into last years Halloween :twisted: sweetie bucket, then covered in Evapo-rust. Fingers crossed its all good latter today…maybe tomorrow :?:


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