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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:18 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Good to have the DBS lowish number in new 6D system at time of Holdsworthy move to new Oakfield Rd facility. This is a period where there is uncertainty re transition of serial systems from 5D to 6D systems.

Similarly important to get more numbers from confusing years 1962 to 1964 when there was an unexplained lapse of original and long lasting 5D serial system to a temporary 4D system.

Likewise c. 1951 is another difficult period as there appears to be a gap of approximately 1,400 frames with not an example from numbers 13615 to 15094. (Presently deduced to be during 1951.)

Numbers with good history around these periods hopefully will surface.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:14 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 1039
Couple more late '70s Pros with stated serial numbers on Bay atm:

010810 short ends, semi wrapover, brazed on BB cable tunnels, brazed on bottle cage bosses(invasive) brazed on gear changer bosses

018394 short ends, no wrapover, semi sloping crown, brazed on BB gear cable tunnels, brazed on bottle cage bosses(invasive)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:05 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
Posts: 290
Location: Colchester, Essex
Thanks, I have added this link also to the file as I find the Ebay ad's disapear after while. So I am tending to add a copy of the description along with the pictures and if thay come up on forums also I log that too.

Thansk for the numbers.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:35 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:27 pm
Posts: 1050
Location: Devon
I've just picked up a Mistral, but with 1/2 chromed stays and 1/2 chromed forks, which seems a little unusual as most of the Mistrals I've seen have no chrome, unless they're Supers, but this one has the normal mistral fork crown not the fully sloping nor full chrome fork. Possibly a custom finish order?

Number on the BB appears to be 1172, which would suggest a '71 or '72 model which seems to fit with the rest of the bits (and the Reynolds transfer version), but I'll need to drop the fork to confirm number as it's a little hard to be sure from the BB number.

It's a bit grubby and I'm short of time at the moment but will clean it up over the next few weeks and get some pics up. Probably going for a full strip and rebuild approach on this one as I have plans for a 700c fat-tyre light tourer to compliment my Mercian KOM :-D


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:03 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
Posts: 290
Location: Colchester, Essex
Thanks for the info. Yes these four digit numbers seen in the 70's are a bit unclear, currently the charts are set up suggesting that the 1st digit signifies the year witin the decade, but there is not a lot of info to back that up.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:25 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:07 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Rutherglen
Evening. Just picked up a holdsworth triath-elan tonight for £50. On investigating the serial number it's H130920. Everything is correct for a 1984 holdsworth triath-elan. Anybody shed any light?. The BB and steerer match. I was expecting to see a 6 digit number with a 0 prefix. The bike details are posted in the readers bike thread.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:01 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:07 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Rutherglen
So...I've did a bit of digging about my own previous post about my recently picked up Holdsworth Triath-Elan. Research shows this Triath-Elan model starts in 1984. My model has the serial number H130920. Through research on this site and others I was expecting to see a six digit number beginning with a 0 (zero) prefix. While researching the 531cs frameset its becomes obvious that Trek were a major user of this frame set, then I came across a great website about vintage Treks which includes serial numbers.

http://www.vintage-trek.com/SerialNos84.htm

My number of 130920 fits into Trek's numbering system for a 1984 Trek 610 with a 531cs frameset! When you google a Trek 610 it looks so like my Holdsworth. Is in possible that my Holdsworth frame was in fact made by Trek for Holdsworth when Holdsworth were just launching the Triath-elan model in the UK and i have perhaps one of the very first Triath-Elans? Your thoughts really are appreciated.


Last edited by baronsouthside on Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:32 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
Posts: 290
Location: Colchester, Essex
Interesting! As you say I would expect a std. 6D number for this. We do have two Triath-Elan's in the database both down as 1984 and both with 6D numbers. Within the 6D numbers Holdsworth supplied frames to other people carrying the std number, notably CB, but also DBS, Harding & Pollard.

The first Triath-elan we have is early in the 1984 predicted numbers and could predate your May build. I would have thought that Holdsworth had the capacity at that time to develop and build their own models. After 1985 and the Marlborough involvement the numbers go very odd and I haven’t figured out any system to them. The fact that your number matches the Trek system I think places and dates it correctly.

It is difficult to know exactly what was going on back in 1984, but I think the most obvious conclusion is that this is a Trek frame. It is possible that Holdworth may have built it and used the Trek numbering, but that would have been at odds with other contract builds of the time. We see a good number CB listed throughout the 6D numbers and one listed as a Stan Perry the previous year. Things may have changed towards the end, but I have no evidence in the numbers collected to support that.

I hope others with a bit more insight to the history of this time can contribute more. Do you have any pictures? Is it possible that it has been repainted and Holdsworth decals added?


Last edited by dwscrimshaw on Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:16 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:56 am
Posts: 32
Looks like the Kilgariff site is down.

http://www.nkilgariff.com/

"This site has been suspended"


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:37 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
Posts: 290
Location: Colchester, Essex
Yes, it seems so. I have contacted the family who had said they were going to move platforms. Not had a reply yet, but I know they were working on it. I hope they will come back to me with a link to a new site. I'll let you know once I hear more.


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