Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:42 pm

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:54 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:23 pm
Posts: 271
Location: South Oxon and North Pennines
Okay, so it's often bandied about that high end Concorde frames from the 80s and 90s period were built by Ciocc.

However, it is almost as well known that Ciocc say this isn't true.

So who did make them? They were definitely made in Italy, but by whom? Billato, Pellizzoli? Come to that, did Ciocc themselves actually make their own frames or were they bought in, possibly from the same maker who supplied the Concorde Aquila and Squadra.

I have owned a Ciocc Designer 84 and a mid to late 80s Concorde Aquila and they appear identical, right down to the internal rear gear routing (apparently this was patented by Billato, but certainly used by others) and the same cloverleaf cutout under the bracket.

I have searched online, and there is plenty of guesswork and opinion, but no answers backed up by real knowledge, so can anyone on here shed some light on the subject?

Incidently, I have had two Aquilas but neither had a serial number, and never did have, which doesn't exactly help identification.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:53 am 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:51 am
Posts: 2587
Location: Camel Land
Roberto Billato I always thought.........Ciocc was just a front......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:32 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5281
Location: West Yorkshire
Nob wrote:
Roberto Billato I always thought.........Ciocc was just a front......

Me too.

But - didn't Billato always have their name engraved on the rear brake bridge?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:30 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 7665
Location: Nth Somerset, UK
Old Ned wrote:
But - didn't Billato always have their name engraved on the rear brake bridge?


No, they made most of the 'production' Greg Lemond steel frames (before he sold the brand) and they had Greg's signature on the brake bridge.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:13 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:03 pm
Posts: 97
Is this of photo of interest? , If Concorde were made by Ciocc and Concordes were used by the PDM team.... here is a photo of a stock Ciocc frame in PDM colours from a 1989 edition of `cycling`.


Attachments:
cioccPDM.jpg
cioccPDM.jpg [ 298.28 KiB | Viewed 449 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:28 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:23 pm
Posts: 271
Location: South Oxon and North Pennines
The frame in the picture is identical to the Ciocc that I once owned! Same PDM colours, but tubing was SL on mine, not SLX. I only sold it when I bought a Colnago Master Olympic - but soon after, the Master was stolen, so regretted selling the Ciocc.

There is fairly solid information from 'a source close to Billato' that Billato made the frames used by a big Dutch team in the '80s, presumably PDM. I have also heard, but only rumours, that after Pelizzoli sold the Ciocc brand, the new owners bought in frames from Billato. So it seems very likely that Billato made identical top end frames for both Ciocc and Concorde (amongst many other top names), hence the connection.

But, in truth, all this may be just smoke and mirrors, and there is certainly a lot of duff information flying about on the web. There seems to be very little solid evidence. Which is strange, bearing in mind the wealth of good solid information regarding British frames from a much earlier period.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:32 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:02 am
Posts: 20
NeilM wrote:
Old Ned wrote:
But - didn't Billato always have their name engraved on the rear brake bridge?


No, they made most of the 'production' Greg Lemond steel frames (before he sold the brand) and they had Greg's signature on the brake bridge.


All 5 of my Billato builts have a bridge that looks like this with engraving variations:

Image

Image

Image

Image

This one on my Lemond GLX Gan bike is "backwards" compared to all the others I've seen:

Image

There's also been discussions about "Silv" on the bottom being the name of one of Billato brothers but it's just the manufacturer of various lugged components.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:13 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:23 pm
Posts: 271
Location: South Oxon and North Pennines
Yes, the high end Concorde and Ciocc frames also use the same brake bridge casting with engravings. It is likely that these die-castings are from a proprietory source, not exclusive to Billato, but bought in, probably from the same supplier as the lugsets.

Very nice collection you have there, BTW.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:30 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:44 am
Posts: 2
Concorde frames were defiantly made by Billato , In 2000 British cycling bought road frames from them for the world class performance plan and I visited the factory with Doug Daily to go through the specs , Roberto spends a lot of his time in China overseeing projects for various brands , I visited pelizolli some years ago he confirmed he had sold the brand but he still seamed pretty busy to me . I hope this helps .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:03 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:23 pm
Posts: 271
Location: South Oxon and North Pennines
It certainly does help.

That confirms what many of us thought, and scotches the misinformation about these frames being built by CIOCC.

Many thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jackosbournesnr, kingbling and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group