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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:18 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:41 pm
Posts: 30
Location: The Netherlands
Midlife wrote:
Did it look like this?

Image

My hunch on the FF could be right?


I was just researching your FF thing and found the same thing!!! yes it is like that!!!! If you look at my pictures, the splines are the same and they were visible past the sprockets! So what is this thing. oooh and it does not move at all counterclockwise! It is really stuck, so was not intended to spin freely, because this was done on the cranck on this system or something? How does it come off though :P

Edit: I think it was the MF-FF61! The pic is the 51


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:26 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:41 pm
Posts: 30
Location: The Netherlands
The weird thing is that the bike is equiped with a Shimano 105sc (1055/1056) group, so no FF system. But then again I bought it in a thrift store so god know, maybe they just slapped these wheels under it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:28 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Location: Cells Interlinked
https://www.ebay.com/i/162745450368?rt=nc

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Shi ... ge_93.html


Last edited by legrandefromage on Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:31 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
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Thought it rang a bell, another dead end from Shimano like their own design of gear lever bosses. Yep, the front chainset moved....Front Freewheel (FF)

Deep inside the body are some splines for a remover but seem to remember the axle or locknut has to be removed. Or just tighten up the vice on the thing and remove by rotating the rim anticlockwise.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:38 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:41 pm
Posts: 30
Location: The Netherlands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hhnuoumt2Q tadaaaah!

Finally I know what the hell it is hahaha. Was bugging me.

Fromage already said, remove the axle, that would have revealed splines for the tool. But have not come around to it.

@Midlife: Well since all the spings and palls are all over the place I think I will just go the brute force route. To bad though, if I knew how to tackle this puppye before I started messing about I might have kept the freewheel and sell it. But if the the tool is that expensive for just one time use it is not worth it for me. Hope I get the darn thing off though.

Anywho, learned something new about bike parts and that is already worth aaaaaaaalllll the trouble :D

Thanks guys!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:17 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 997
Glad someone solved the mystery! Here is wot i wrote earlier, but didn't get around to posting:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I've never seen one like that before either. Looks like it might be some patent novelty design with the 'ratchet' (what you are calling 'the splines') on the inner casting, and the (3?) pawls let into the outer/sprockets part, which altogether would be the reverse of the usual design. I presume that what you are left with there attached to the hub is the 'inner' casting of the freewheel- i.e. one piece of steel- the larger diameter part of which is threaded onto the hub.

If that is the case, I would try to get some Plus-Gas in there around the 'shoulder', between the casting and the hub body itself. After that has (hopefully) soaked in, get the larger diameter of the casting in the vice, and squeeze the casting pretty tight in between the vice jaws. Release the pressure, move the wheel through, say, sixty degrees, and do the same again. Working around like that, with more Plus-Gas, will (hopefully) induce temporary micro-ovalisations of the casting, helping the Plus-Gas to insinuate its way around the whole length of the thread. It might take a few days.

That should get you to the point where you can grip the casting in the vice, turn the wheel counter-clockwise, and release the thread.

Works for me, although that has been with more conventional 'inner' bodies with an opposing pair of pawl-housings which can be effectively gripped in the vice. Yours looks a bit more challenging, and you'd possibly be better off gripping the casting by its smaller diameter when you attempt to release."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have got as far as disassembling the whole 'freewheel'* (I think you have!) then using the vice will probably be just as effective- if not more effective- than the dedicated removal tool. As Shaun says, if it is a Nuovo Tipo, the part that is still attached should unscrew counter-clockwise just like any other conventional sprocket block.

*I (think I) see now that the first two sentences of my first paragraph are incorrect insofar as this is not a 'freewheel' at all- it has no ratchet and pawls. If a drivetrain design can incorporate the ratchet and pawls into the crank/chainring interface, then all the sprockets can be fixed, and you can still 'freewheel'. When you stop pedalling, the chain and chainrings continue to rotate around the crank. :?:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Trying hard to remember as it was quite a while ago but I'm sure there was some movement on the "freewheel" and it was not just a stack of fixed cogs. I wonder if it was a safety mechanism if the front freewheel jammed....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:10 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:41 pm
Posts: 30
Location: The Netherlands
So I was wondering! This freewheel does not freewheel (makes sense in a weeeeeiiiird way :P ) So I was wondering, you can use this freewheel, sprocket set and ride a fixed gear with gears (again it makes sense in a weird way :P )!?!? This ofcourse without the freewheeling front cranck mechanism.

Now would that work and what would be the drawbacks??

EDIT: The bloody thing is off!!!!! Sweet!!! :D


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:57 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 997
Congrats on a successful blockectomy.. :) Regarding your new question:

You know what happens when you forget that you are riding 'fixed', and stop pedalling, right?

Derailleurs are not designed to cope with those stresses. Even if you could find a derailleur sufficiently supple and strong to adjust to all that suddenly disappeared slack on the bottom run of the chain, the top run of the chain would be sagging down beyond the chainstay, unless you care to rig up another pair of sprung pulleys for the top run.

It seems from your pictures that the assembled FF sprocket block has some sort of 'escape' built into it anyway, in spite of being intended to be used 'in line' with a crank-mounted ratchet- it is not 'fixed' in the true sense.

You are best placed to tell us how it functions, given that you have one to hand..


Last edited by torqueless on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:06 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:41 pm
Posts: 30
Location: The Netherlands
torqueless wrote:
Congrats on a successful blockectomy.. :) Regarding your new question:

You know what happens when you forget that you are riding 'fixed', and stop pedalling, right?

Derailleurs are not designed to cope with those stresses. Even if you could find a derailleur sufficiently supple and strong to take up all that slack on the bottom run of the chain, the top run of the chain would be sagging down beyond the chainstay, unless you care to rig up another pair of sprung pulleys for the top run.

It seems from your pictures that the assembled FF sprocket block has some sort of 'escape' built into it anyway, in spite of being intended to be used 'in line' with a crank-mounted ratchet- it is not 'fixed' in the true sense.

You are best placed to tell us how it functions, given that you have one to hand..


Dumb me! Did not take that into consideration. It is the same reason why you should not use a chain tensioner and vertical drop-outs for a fixed gear. Brain fart much.

The second point holds also true and I should have know this. Because I tried if I could unscrew it with a chainwhip, but that indeed provoked some movement in the sprockets. Just thought it was broken. But it makes sense that it would not be truly fixed. The question is then if the "safety mechanism" would cope with the stress of trying to ride it semi-fixed (for the lack of better terminology). Don't think I will try it out :P Just wondering about the system and stuff :D

Thanks for the reply Torque!


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