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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:04 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 945
Thanks to all for satisfying my curiosity!

The link takes me to your page, PerB, but I cannot see any pictures. No matter. I remember your silver Migliore from earlier thread anyway. Iirc it has no brazed on BB gear cable tunnels either.

I guess one question is whether DBS were in a position to specify braze-ons etc. that were beyond the usual Holdsworth specification at the time, and whether they did so.

Either way, we possibly end up with a sort of micro-timeline (c.1975-8) for Holdsworth Pros in transition from the original 1970 spec. to the '78 spec.:

1. long ends, full wrapover, full sloping crown. (4903)
2. long ends, full wrapover, full sloping crown, brazed on BB gear cable tunnels,brazed on bottle cage bosses (non-invasive). (008926)
3. long ends, semi wrapover, semi-sloping crown, brazed on BB gear cable tunnels, brazed on bottle cage bosses (invasive). (010757*, 013144)
4. short ends, semi wrapover, semi-sloping crown, brazed on BB gear cable tunnels, brazed on bottle cage bosses (invasive). (1978 Holdsworth spec. as in catalogue. 531SL variant still has some sort of full wrapover).

*PerB reported that 010757 was identical to 013144. I am assuming including the long ends?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:19 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
As I understand it:

The 4D numbers used in early 70's were for special builds ie "made to measure" frames, and frames built to specs for smaller shops often for self branding. Braze-ons, even angles could be custom. This numbering system was separate from long standing 5D system that the majority of frames fell under during same period.

Similarly when move to new factory took place in mid 1975 there was also a separate area for special builds. These frames all fell under the same new 6D numbering system as other Holdsworthy frames. Bill Hurlow, at least in post move 70's, was likely the "master craftsman" referred to in 1978 catalogue giving direction in the area where higher end Pros were built and also likely same area .

Thus DBS frames as well as Hardings for example are found under both of these numbering systems.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
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Quote:
Braze-ons, even angles could be custom.

Thanks Doug. Notwithstanding this, As far as I can remember I have yet to see a putative pre '75 Holdsworth Pro, DBS, Harding, etc., with any braze-ons beyond Holdsworth's customary chainstay stop and down tube gear lever stop.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:43 am 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:41 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Oslo Norway
torqueless wrote:
PerB reported that 010757 was identical to 013144. I am assuming including the long ends?


010757 has indeed the long Campagnolo dropouts.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Thanks PerB ... not forgetting it was you who alerted us (me anyway) to the existence of DBS Holdsworths in the first place.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:59 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 pm
Posts: 10
Hi, grateful for any help with my new unidentified Holdsworth please!

Hidden under a hideous repaint the frame number is 34013. It is 24" ctt on the seat tube with the spearpoint type lugs.

There are no braze-on fittings save for the cable guides for the rear mech. The seat tube takes a 27.2 post. The rear stays are 5/8" just below the top lug. The rear bridge is straight with no lugs to the stays and will not take recessed fixings. Under the paint the rear stays are chromed for just over 10" on each. The front forks are the Italian style, sloping crown and appear to be fully chromed.

The headset is Campagnolo but no indication of what model. The chainset is Campagnolo Strada 170mm with Nuevo Record mechs. The brakes are Universal Extra late model 51 short reach.

The hubs are large flange Campagnolo Record laced onto 700c Red Lable Cherchio Fiamme tubular rims.

Grateful for any thoughts.

Gus


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:02 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 pm
Posts: 10
Some pics


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:05 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 pm
Posts: 10
And to finish

Any help with age, model and suitable finishes please

Gus


Attachments:
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:18 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 9227
Location: Cumbria
Off the top of my head looks like a '72 Pro?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:27 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
I think fits for a 1970 early factory Pro.

I hadn't seen post on this thread and had written a more wordy response on your earlier thread.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=378683


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