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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:33 am 
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Quote:
it is the earliest DBS found so far.

Iirc PerB has found about half a dozen older than this. Do you rather mean: "it is the earliest 6-digit DBS found so far." ?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:15 am
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Location: Stockholm
Thanks for all your input, and I´m glad if I can make a small contribution in the pursuit of correct manufactoring dates & numbers for Holdsworth frames.
@torqueless: your link does not work properly, but I can confirm that the number is on the drive side on the BB shell.
@PerB: I can definitly see the resemblance with your -76 DBS La Migliore.
To sum this up then, my bike was propably made in the second half of -77, and then, little by little, found its way to the LBS in Trelleborg/Sweden, being purchased by my relative in the spring of -78.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:38 pm 
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torqueless wrote:
Quote:
it is the earliest DBS found so far.

Iirc PerB has found about half a dozen older than this. Do you rather mean: "it is the earliest 6-digit DBS found so far." ?

yes, should have been more specific, I have been concentration on the 6D numbers hence the comment. I do have 3 earlier numbers in the 1970's 4 digit group. if there are any more then I would be glad to have them


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Camaleonte wrote:
Thanks for all your input, and I´m glad if I can make a small contribution in the pursuit of correct manufactoring dates & numbers for Holdsworth frames.
@torqueless: your link does not work properly, but I can confirm that the number is on the drive side on the BB shell.
@PerB: I can definitly see the resemblance with your -76 DBS La Migliore.
To sum this up then, my bike was propably made in the second half of -77, and then, little by little, found its way to the LBS in Trelleborg/Sweden, being purchased by my relative in the spring of -78.

Can I just confirm, I have PerB's frame down as 013144 Bought in 1979. this is the 3rd one in the 6D group with two earlier I would see this as being latter than 1977?

Also I have travelled meany times to the Telleborg area visiting the Saab design centre there, unfortunately they are now no more.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Location: Oslo Norway
It is believed that DBS started using Holdsworth frames from 1974 or thereabouts, but there are very few survivors from the early days.

It was asked earlier about the time from the frame was made until it was painted (this 70's bike were painted in the DBS factory wile later in the eighties they imported frames already painted) , assembled and sold in Norway. This a more or less impossible question to answer, I can speculate, but don't take it for anything else.

The two top models of DBS, the La Migliore and the Proffesionale, was only sold through a few specialised bike shops, there were maybe 300 shops selling the utility bike range while only around 20 shops were allowed to sell the specific high end racing range here in Norway. The low end model the Internazionale was sold by all shops and are much more common.
These specialised shops had maybe one or two bikes on display, but most of the racing bikes was assembled to special order. DBS had a range of standard sized frame in stock and assembled more or less to order. This means a standard frame could be sitting in the DBS warehouse for months before its assembled. But if you require a special built frame to size, you could order that aswell, this frames had a much faster turnaround and it would only be a few weeks from the frame was finished until it was on the road in Norway. Anyhow a large number of this high end models was used by sponsored semi professional teams and were mostly supplied early spring. Many of these "sponsor" frames were special order frames.

Some frames was also sold as bare frames for assembly in the specialised shops or by the purchaser. I am guessing mine
approx 76 frame is one of those since there is good mix of Shimano Dura-Ace 7100 brakes, Sugino Crankset and Nuevo Record derailleurs.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:33 pm 
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@Camaleonte:
The 'font' and placement of the number is pretty consistent on the 'factory' Holdsworths. Sorry about the link. Have a look at the PerB's '79(?) blue DBS 013144 on page 20 of this thread.
I notice your frame has a pair of brazed-on bottle-cage bosses on the down tube. Can you confirm whether they are 'invasive' (brazed into the tube) or 'non-invasive' (brazed onto the surface of the tube)? Looks like the latter, but I thought I'd ask..

@dwscrimshaw:
Quote:
if there are any more then I would be glad to have them

You probably have all the DBS the numbers that I've seen. I claim 'poetic licence' for my "half a dozen". Apologies.
DBS aside, I was wondering if you have collected any 6-digit numbers earlier than Camaleonte's 008926 ?

@PerB: Remind me if you have come across any 5-digit DBS Holdsworths ? I don't remember any- but it is easy to lose track..

Also I just noticed that 013144 still has the 'long' Campag. ends, even though it has the other '78 onwards features- semi-sloping crown and semi-wrapover seat stays. Could be a 'transitional' hybrid..?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:15 am
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Location: Stockholm
@torqueless: I have the same placement of the number as PerB's blue DBS 013144, se enclosed picture.
I would guess the bosses are non-invasive because I can only use very short bolts when attaching a bottle cage to the frame.


Attachments:
20171204_173254 liten.jpg
20171204_173254 liten.jpg [ 41.96 KiB | Viewed 380 times ]
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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:01 pm 
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Yeah that certainly looks like a Holdsworth number.

The non-invasive bosses could be another short-lived iteration. They seem to have been superseded by 'invasive' ones by '78. There is a year (somewhere between '75 and '77) before which you wouldn't get bottle cage bosses at all on a Holdsworth Pro.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:58 am 
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Location: Colchester, Essex
Yes, there are 27 earlier 6D number starting with 000017 and then 3 with 3 number 000XXX, the rest have 4 Numbers 00XXXX.

I have not seen any DBS in the original 5D number system, but there are 3 in the 70's 4D numbers along with 2 Hardings, a Pollard and a Clive Stuart. There are 9 Holdsworths too, but the feeling is that these odd 4D number from the 70's were used for frames sold outside the usual Holdsworth outlet of their shop. All these 4D DBS are listed as early 70's or 1974? by owners.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:34 am 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:41 pm
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Location: Oslo Norway
torqueless wrote:
Yeah that certainly looks like a Holdsworth number.

The non-invasive bosses could be another short-lived iteration. They seem to have been superseded by 'invasive' ones by '78. There is a year (somewhere between '75 and '77) before which you wouldn't get bottle cage bosses at all on a Holdsworth Pro.


Mine DBS La Migliore believed to be around 76 with 4903 serial number does not have any bottle bosses at all.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PlFGVs9OqlQal6bh1

https://photos.app.goo.gl/N40b7pYHtwR2hUYF2


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