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 Post subject: Re: Works of art
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:58 am 
.o.T.M Triple Crown Winner
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2wheels4ever wrote:
nothing comes close to the look of a Klein Adroit in the right colour. From a ride perspective, I LOVE FULL SUSPENSION and my butt agrees. :D


I can not agree more :D But when you are riding smooth trails, I mean really smooth, nothing rides like a Klein!


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 Post subject: Re: Works of art
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:51 am 
BoTM Winner | Feature Bike | Gold Trader
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Shamus wrote:
But when you are riding smooth trails, I mean really smooth, nothing rides like a Klein!


really smooth trails = tarmac ? :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:44 am 
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Never ridden one, I do remember a guy who lived near me had one when he was 15. Posed on it and occasionally raced. The thing is this guy was a minor celebrity among our peer group because of his Klein, much as other guys were who had Pace or Merlin bikes.

I think a lot of people who remember the bikes as new remember not a great bike; but a spoilt kid getting all the attention and then saying NO when you ask for a go on his bike.

For this reason I never fancied one, but I do respect the brand.

Still have never ridden a Klein or a Merlin. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:07 pm 
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Well, i bought one and probably for all the 'wrong' reasons. Truth is, i could care less. I like a nice piece of kit and this, to me, was the epitome of high end hartails form the mid nineties. There is loads of bikes i like from that era but a Klein 'does' it for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Kleins
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:26 pm 
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Location: God's waiting room !!
Wold Ranger wrote:
Which puts the point well and truely to bed, they re over priced- end of as we say t' rand ere! Always were poor bikes well marketed, thats a good business code! Sell cheap tat at high prices.


Are you mad ????

Each to their own of course but dont think you have any right to say their cheap tat !! Just the sort of thing I would expect from somebody who has never owned one !! (No doubt you'll come back with - Yes I have!)

They ride well, made to extremely high spec and look the shit !!! What more is it lacking ? Ive raced mine in the past and im not a light rider or a pussy when it comes to flying off 6ft drops !! Ive never cracked one !! Tell me the welding looks shite !! Hmmmm.... Let me think! Fish Scale, bird shit or butter welds taken with time and effort ? I wonder !!

And who else in the early 90's was able to make such a stiff and excellent ride which could weigh in easily under 20 lbs ????

Rant over but I still think your mad !! I dont even own a Klein anymore but I know for sure I will again :P


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 Post subject: Re: Kleins
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:51 pm 
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delboy009 wrote:
Wold Ranger wrote:
Which puts the point well and truely to bed, they re over priced- end of as we say t' rand ere! Always were poor bikes well marketed, thats a good business code! Sell cheap tat at high prices.


Are you mad ????

Each to their own of course but dont think you have any right to say their cheap tat !! Just the sort of thing I would expect from somebody who has never owned one !! (No doubt you'll come back with - Yes I have!)

They ride well, made to extremely high spec and look the shit !!! What more is it lacking ? Ive raced mine in the past and im not a light rider or a pussy when it comes to flying off 6ft drops !! Ive never cracked one !! Tell me the welding looks shite !! Hmmmm.... Let me think! Fish Scale, bird shit or butter welds taken with time and effort ? I wonder !!

And who else in the early 90's was able to make such a stiff and excellent ride which could weigh in easily under 20 lbs ????

Rant over but I still think your mad !! I dont even own a Klein anymore but I know for sure I will again :P


I have had 3 pre trek and two post, all from a local Hull BS, the 3 pre Trek all snapped and were replaced under warranty(yeah right) the dealer let me have the replacements at "trade" Klein didn't want to know.
OK I come from a MX/Trials background so back then, could well abuse a bike, (I'm getting too old now and don't bounce sa much!) Mine all suffered snapped driveside chainstays, the paint was also incredibly fragile and literally fell off, when flints hit it, which on our local soil is continuously.
I've had a lot of other makes and crashed plenty too, Kleins were the only frames I managed to break, this experience goes for many of my old riding pals too, they are nowt but Mutton dressed as Lamb.
Looks a decent ride does not make alone, but it sells plenty of bikes!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:16 pm 
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I know people who have broken every frame they've ridden, be it lightweight race hardtails or big hitting machines like Stinkys, etc. Conversely, other people have never broken a frame. Therefore I always take it as 'one of those things' which could happen to any frame. Nothing is indestructible and you should at least have an idea of what you're buying before parting with your cash - if not, you a)are an idiot or b)have a nice amount of expendable income.
I've never hankered after Kleins, but I can see that with the artwork, hidden welds and general neatness of the frame, other people may appreciate them. And they are a bit different - I've never seen that many in my 15 years of riding. I think their appeal rests on these qualities.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:59 pm 
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:roll: This thread has become just so much sour grapes.

It's really simple...Kleins are popular because they are Kleins.
Nothing else is a Klein.
Nobody smoothed aluminum frames and painted them to glass like Klein.
Nobody payed attention to details like Klein.
Noboy else made as many reaching advancements, for the day, available in frames comparable to Klein.
Nobody.

Many slick features, like internal cable routing, chain suck plates, square to round chainstay swagging, sloped top tubes, quick angles, light weight, etc, are pretty standard fare today, but they were the cat's tits in 1992. Sure the zip-grip seat collars, MC headsets, and press-fit bottom brackets were a pain, but Klein never hid from trying something new. Even those dubious 'advancements' had strengths on paper. A seat tube that provided for tool-less adjustment without the weight or complication of a quick release? Oversized sealed bearings in the bottom bracket? In the head tube? Seems like forward thinking to me. Brand lethargy didn't doom Klein...Only after Klein got rolled into Trek did they die off. Same as Bontrager. (Fisher and Lemond were companies in name only, so they don't get tears from me the way Klein and Bontrager do.

Carsten once posted a picture of a maroon Rascal for sale. Months later, I asked him if it was still available, and he confirmed that it was. I asked him how much and he replied, make an offer. I made him a buyer friendly offer (translation, I low-balled him) and never heard about the frame again. Why? Because he knows what he has. Knows it has enduring value. Knows that there are no real valid questions to that value. And knows not to be suckered by a cheap offer. Kleins are the real deal. Chehalis, pre-Trek Kleins are still respected today for being exactly what they are, handmade, handpainted pinnacles (no pun intended) of engineering packed with technology that back in the day, pushed the envelope hard. Technology not for technology's sake, but for the genuine purpose of creating a better bike, advancement after advancement. Very few companies did as much to create products as distinctive as Klein. Quite frankly, and I've owned a multitude of aluminum frames over the years...Aliens, Stumpjumpers, Cannondale Beasts, Zaskars...in my estimation, nobody did aluminum frames better. And as long as you stayed out of the proprietary headset frames, they were pretty reasonably priced to boot! (Rascal!)

The reason why Klein gets crapped on today is simple, and two fold...first, they are pretty. They are glamorous. Nobody likes glamorous mountain bikes, at least, nobody takes the idea seriously....unless they owned one or aspired to. Mountain bikes shouldn't twinkle like a disco stage AND ride like the wind too, should they? People hated then and hate today, on the paint. SURELY, a bike that looks THAT blingy just can't be legit, right? :roll:

Secondly, and this it the big sticking point to me...Kleins are considered toys of the rich. Props to the midlife crisis sufferers like Jerry Seinfeld, who would just buy the things to hang them on the wall. Sad but true, yet this isn't Klein's fault, any more than its Porsche's fault that they are the automotive equivalent. How many Porsches get used on track days? Does that make a Porsche less of a sports car? Is that really Porsche's fault? Am I concerned that if I show up at the trail head on my Rascal that others will think I'm a rich old poser fart? Uh...NO! In fact, I'm glad that many Kleins were purchased by rich old fart posers back in the day, it means that there are clean examples of the brand available to us now, probably in percentages of total manufactured numbers far higher than other high-zoot brands from back in the day. Is that really bad? Is Shamus supposed to be SAD that Adroits are hanging on walls in retired executive garages, just waiting for the auction block? :shock:

On the durability front...let's be real here. Kleins are not brittle. 15-20 years later, we are talking about cracked seat tubes and some other niggles...YEARS! I know that Zaskars have broken too, but I'm not labeling them as brittle (although admittedly, the 1st gen Zaskar is a burlier frame than anything Klein ever made). If you broke a Klein using it for cross country work, you'd have probably broken a Beast too, or an American, or a Yeti, or (certainly) a Manitou. Finish work? I've never seen 'fragile' Chehalis paint. You can whack my Rascal with a hammer and it wouldn't chip. Why do you think starTrek has to do all that scraping? :lol:

Don't blame Klein for being Klein. Embrace Klein for being Klein. In the immortal words of Porsche..."There is no substitute" 8)


Last edited by utahdog2003 on Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Quote:
Only after Klein got rolled into Trek did they die off. Same as Bontrager.


Dunno about Klein, but Bontrager wouldn't have lasted long as an independent company by the time Trek came knocking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:15 pm 
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MikeD wrote:
Quote:
Only after Klein got rolled into Trek did they die off. Same as Bontrager.


Dunno about Klein, but Bontrager wouldn't have lasted long as an independent company by the time Trek came knocking.


"Is it better to burn out than to fade away?"

Jack Black...High Fidelity


:D


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