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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:02 pm 
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Elev12k wrote:
I would say singlespeed is a post 1995 concept/hype, so it fits neatly in the grey/dump category.


Except that the original "mountain bikes" were single speed cruisers made for going downhill, so I guess there must be room for single speeds and some downhillers in the retro world, unless you subscribe to the retro bike creationist theory. Personally I believe in Bikewinism, and the evolutionary process is what allows us to build retro bikes, like bike-eologists, carefully resurrecting frames and parts and re-assembling them in accordance with a point and time on the bikolutionary scale.

(The DH part is not for you Elev and neither is what follows spawned by your input, but the first Kona fully was sold in '94: Verlicchi frames also used by Ironhorse. I believe Intense started making fullies in '92.)

This said, a paleontologist wouldn't stick some bones from a dinosaur from one period together with bones from one existing a million years later and call it "true", and so in keeping with the usage of retro on this site, as many original parts, or (roughly) period correct parts would seem to make a proper retro bike. New components on an old frame would seem to be in conflict with this philosophy, however nice it is to breath life into an old frame.

However, one might contend that these bikes are in fact vintage, and perhaps only retro by default. When I lived in Vancouver, there were plenty of vintage clothing shops selling old clothes from the 70's and 80's. The clothes were from that era (vintage), not modern clothes reflecting that style (retro), and the cultural trend to wear old clothes would have been called a "retro fad", defining a movement within a culture that is inspired by a particular trend from a bygone era. A large part of a retro fad is no doubt inspired by sentimantalism, which also fits with many in here quite well.

This is only more semantics, however, and it's NOT my intention to start yet another debate as to "what is retro." When I found this site, I interpreted retro in the second sense, but understood that most of the bikes here fell under the first definition. I only have one that fits the first definition (minus the titanium riser bars...shame, shame, I know, but my back can't take flat bars and 130mm stems, and at least ti would be a period-correct upgrade.)

That said, I have no problem with the split. When the site was started, it was clearly done so with the first definition in mind, and that should be respected. I have no problem posting a picture of a classic or rare frame in a post 97 forum. Classic and rare are not necessarily retro by any definition. As I'm sure it's been pointed out, there are plenty of other forums to post totally modern bikes, like my Kona fully, which has no business being here...just like my 98% retro´92 Explosif has no business in a modern bike park.

So let's not all get are panties in a knot. We should keep retrobike as it was intended to be by it's creators (yes, I see the conflict with my bike-olution theory) and not try to change it on the basis of semantics. It was, after all, made with a specific purpose in mind, and we all get a lot of enjoyment out of being here. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:09 pm 
West Midlands AEC
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Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 11:06 pm
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Location: Stow on the Wold, Glos
Is there cross wires here?

I dont think the intention of post 97 is to start posting peoples proper modern bikes like my 2003 Enduro ??

Its for 1997/98/99 bikes possibly later if of 90`s type and style?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:33 pm 
Ain't no party like an S Club party
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Elev12k wrote:
I would say singlespeed is a post 1995 concept/hype, so it fits neatly in the grey/dump category.


Oh dear.

Quite surprised to read that really.

That would instantly wipe off my Pace and Rascal from here.

And several others from different forum members.

Just because where I live is flat and I don't want shifters, f & r mechs, and only need one ring front and rear on the bikes I use to ride to work doesn't stop them being retro surely?

The frames and all other components are period-correct, it is just that some parts have been removed to make life easier.

Should I remove these bikes from the site and put them in the 'Grey Area'?

Surely it's about sharing builds with people and discussing bikes?

If there are bikes from '92 or '94 say, which are all correctly built but don't have M900 mechs or thumbies are you suggesting you would prefer simply not to see them Melv?

Despite the effort that may have gone into building them, and the pleasure they may bring?

Seems a very broad statement which I'm surprised comes from you as you normally seem more rational than that?!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:39 pm 
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First the proliferation of forums here, and now MTBR-VRC is having a BOTM! ...am I in a parallel universe? :shock:



:D


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:57 pm 
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daj wrote:
Is there cross wires here?

I dont think the intention of post 97 is to start posting peoples proper modern bikes like my 2003 Enduro ??



I don't think anyone said that...but maybe I missed something somewhere?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:56 pm 
Concours Judge
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My pure vs grey idea: Okay, I anticipated on immediate concensus, a lot enthousiasm and that this could take effect within a day or two :wink: Seems some oppose though. Two people?

Yes, too bad to miss an interesting rig in a grey area, but if it helps not having to see 10 bikes I do not care to see??? Kind of cost/benifit calculation.

Point is that imho for some kind of reason Retrobike faces what MTBR VRC or mtb-news classic do not face: Questional bikes of which I really don't have the idea that anyone on here is sincerelly interested in them are popping up in substantional numbers and the trend is up. Apparently Retrobike acts like a magnet on them.

The Germans do have a Gallery for posting bikes. There is the option of giving marks, from 1 to 10. Adding such feature to Reader's bikes should make people think twice before posting? MTBR VRC has extremely long load times, so only die hards stay and quasi interested get tired :lol:

Some brainstorming for my account.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:18 am 
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Elev12k wrote:
Point is that imho for some kind of reason Retrobike faces what MTBR VRC or mtb-news classic do not face: Questional bikes of which I really don't have the idea that anyone on here is sincerelly interested in them are popping up in substantional numbers and the trend is up. Apparently Retrobike acts like a magnet on them.



If no-one is interested in these "questional bikes" then why are they "popping up in substantial numbers" on Retrobike. Presumably because some people round here genuinely like to see stuff like , for example, Harry Burgundy's Hei-Hei SS and like seeing what someone they "know" (even if only virtually) has produced even if it's not (by some peoples definition) retro. It is by mine I might add....
It's all about community, shared information and enjoyment of bikes, building them, riding them, discussing them - whatever. The important thing to remember is that while bikes are just so much metal, the people who own them, ride them and build them are just people, and it's the attitudes that are shown to them that really matters a lot more than whether or not someone wants to look at a strictly non-retro bike.

People have feelings and just because you're not face-to-face with them doesn't mean that you can ignore that. If anything, quite the opposite - it's far easier to come over as being offensive in cold print than in conversation.

Over moderation and regulation will ruin this place - no question. The fact that a lot of us are interested in "questional" bikes is probably an indication that we are "questional" in other ways too and will end up resenting being treated in what seems to be becoming an increasingly draconian manner.

Get back to what matters guys!! - I don't see anyone abusing this site nor do I see any of the other members complaining about it either - apart from some moderators, that is. In a civilised society ( as we have here ?) most people are capable of self-moderation without having directives barked from the virtual equivalent of a Tannoy. I thought all this was supposed to be about pleasure, the next best thing to meeting you guys for a ride and a few beers afterwards and looking at and talking about bikes and anything else we fancied. I suppose I'm being a bit naive then - I'm always harking back to gentler, kinder more simple times and wishing that people were still like that .....

It's not going to happen, I know.

So, just so that I don't come across as someone who rides rough-shod over the feelings of others I know how much hard work goes into the running of a website and I am appreciative of that hard work - maybe I should just accept that at some time this one won't be the right place for me unfortunately. Hell - it's not life or death, just some crappy old bikes.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:25 am 
South East AEC
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Not wanting to get drawn into this debate, my slingshot has a 92 rear end and a 99 top & head tube, so is both modern and retro.

Never mind thers always one !!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:10 pm 
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jez-4-bikes-max wrote:
Can we start to see proper retrobikes in the early section please? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :D :D


Nope!! M500's the hot new bike! :shock:



:P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:21 pm 
Gold Trader
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Posts: 1811
Location: St Ives,Cambridgeshire
I love looking at all the bikes and long may it continue

Not sure where I stand on the retro/non-retro debate. I have two 1993 frames, one completely period correct as it came when new and another with 90% new parts

They are both great in my eyes and if I were really honest that's what counts the most and not what section they should be in

My main concern is it will put people off posting their bikes and that would be a big loss to our community


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